Mini Horse Question/Problems....

[Barnyard]

Thanks ducks4you....

After today, I believe I am going to sale him. Unless I have food in my hand, he wants no part of me. I went to get him out of his pen this morning so he could get some excercise and explore and he refused to let me grab his halter. I tried several times and the first time he snatched away, the second time he snatched away and rared on his hind legs. So I left him there for a little bit.....went back and tried again, nope, not having it. He also bits things, like the pallet that is proped up and his food bucket, his lead rope. He stomps his foot as if he is pissed off. My dh can do a little more with him than I can, but I am going to be the sole caregiver of this horse and if he don't like me, sorry, he's got to go. My children are my main concern here, not the horse.




ETA: Yes I know that a horse can live 30 years....I am prepared for that.

 

[Bunnylady]

On the size issue . . . if you're 5'5", and he's more than waist-high on you, that'll be, um, . . . I get a rough estimate in the neighborhood of 40". That puts him at the top end of the "B" range, maybe even going over. So he's a big boy, as minis go. Not surprising, really. I hear that the B's are more prone to "attitude" than the smaller ones. I think he probably weighs more in the 300 - 400 lb. range, too.

he refused to let me grab his halter. I tried several times and the first time he snatched away, the second time he snatched away and rared on his hind legs. So I left him there for a little bit.....went back and tried again, nope, not having it.

I always try to give the animal the benefit of the doubt, so I have to ask. Are you sure this isn't a pain issue? His halter could have rubbed some sore spots on his face, making him this head-shy. I don't believe that's what's happening, but it's possible.

Let me tell you how the part of your post that I quoted read to me. I see it as a conversation, going something like this:

You: "Ok, I'm going to hold you, now."
Pony: "Nah, I don't think so."
You: "I'm still trying to touch you."
Pony: "No way, sister! Go away!"
You: "I'm still trying to restrain you."
Pony: "What's the matter with you? Are you stupid or something? I SAID GO AWAY!!" (rearing)

And you did exactly what he wanted; you went away. May I ask, who's in charge here?

Now, there are a lot of animal trainers who believe that everything between you and the animal should be positive, lots of wubbin' and warm fuzzies. I am with them, up to a point. The point at which we part company is the one that your pony just went to; the point where the animal threatens me. If he was just being rowdy and playful, then withdrawing your attention and presence would probably have been an appropriate response. But under these circumstances, it seems to me that you positively rewarded his negative behavior, making it more likely to occur again. If he had pulled such a maneuver on me, his next thought would have been, "Uh, oh! BIG mistake!! BOSS MARE IS GONNA CHEW ME UP AND SPIT ME OUT IN LITTLE PIECES!!!!"

As I said before, I love my minis dearly. But I am not going to be dissed by some freakin' little 40" mini! Syd (the man-eating mini) and I have had to have this very conversation more than once. She loves me, and trusts me; she runs to me when something scares her. But she will respect me, or she will pay the price. When she's good, we're very, very good; but when she's bad, I'm badder!

Understand, I'm not advocating beating on the animal. There are ways of putting pressure on them without resorting to physical abuse. When you are dealing with minis, you have to walk a rather fine line. You want to come on strong enough that they don't dare challenge you, but not so strong that you scare them witless. Mr. Testoterone needs to be put in his place, but not so ferociously that he will fear you for life. He's a horse, so he understands about dominance; his problem is that he's trying to dominate you. I agree wholeheartedly with the suggestions about gelding and roundpenning, if you could find someone to "mentor" you, that would be great, too.

Just out of curiousity, what are you feeding this guy? What kind of housing/confinement does he usually have? Do you have any other animals that he can see/interact with?

 

[Barnyard]

Bunnylady, you were pretty dead on with the "conversation" between Thunder and I. He was able to tell me to "go away" which I know now was a big no no. I have to show him that I am herd leader. He was not as naughty this morning when I let him out. He wanted to get a little frisky but a firm, WHOA, and a snatch on the lead rope and he did ok. He has attempted to bit me many times, at first I just said, "NO", now....he gets a good smack right to the face when he tries to bit.

I am going to get him a new halter this week and see if that has anything to do with it, because the one he has on is tight. Why they last owner had not changed it already, I have no clue. He said "he's going to need a new halter before to long, this one is getting tight"...um hello D>A>....kinda of obvious, don't you think.

Right now his current diet is grass hay free choice because we have very little green stuff around here. At night he get's put up in the shed where my dh made him a stall, probley 10X12. Which is better than what he did have, nothing. No shelter from rain, cold wind....just an open pen, lets say maybe 20x40, with 4 other horses. In the afternoon he gets 1 full scoop of fed which is allgrain. I am looking for something better to feed him to try and cut back on the oats a little. During the day, I take him out of his stall and put him either on a tie out in the yard, or let him loose in a pen about the size he was staying in before I got him.
I have a pot belly pig and 2 pygmy goats that are in the pen right next to him, and many chickens and ducks. So yes, he has some other animals that he can see. Right now, those guys are scared of him.

I was told when I got this little guy that he would let you put a saddle on him, um no way!! He would not have any part of that saddle yesterday.

Thankyou so much for all the advice.

 

[Countrymom]

Barnyard,
I have to agree with everyone saying geld him. He is only going to get worse as spring hits. Being young and really just discovering he is a stallion himself, his hormones are going to rage and he is going to be more than a handful. He is going to need extremely firm handling and someone who knows how to discipline and handle stallions. And if you sell him before you geld him please be open and honest with any potiential buyers. Unlike most people who give sellers the benefit of the doubt, I tend to think that they knew and just passed off the problem. Why would I be so negative? Because I have seen it too many times in the horse world where people play dumb and pass off a problem horse just to get rid of it.

Now as for the pony....as being his size he is a pony not a mini..... this leads me to another frustration. And please, I don't mean to sound like I am yelling at anyone. Why on earth would you buy a 2 year old equine for your children to learn to ride or continue to learn to ride? He is an equine afterall.....pony being no different than a horse other than size. They still need the training and discipline like any full sized horse. Because they are small often times people think that they cannot do any damage or will automatically be broke for kids. No such thing. I would rather see a small adult or experience child break and train a pony or mini than see someone chance a child on them to attempt to train them. Without experience a child really has no means of helping that pony figure out the rights and wrongs of learning to ride. And sadly as a society we all think that ponies are born broke and we don't need to train them. Unfortunately the end result is a pony with ill temper and a label from owners and handlers as a rank pony. Please, keep this in mind as you deal with him. You are his only source right now of training and will be until you sell him. I agree with you that your children should not be allowed around him and I disagree with you that they should when supervised. And I say that ONLY because he is a stallion. Stallions are unpredictable and this one being with his mind and age moreso at this point in his life. Please be careful and keep the kids at a safe distance. Ponies are strong critters who can unexpentantly hurt even a full grown adult.

Now, if you do end up keeping him, invest the money into surgery and you will find a different attitude from him in time. It takes a bit longer with ponies from my experience, but they do come around. Then invest time and even money with a trainer if need be to get him trained up nice and safe for your kids. My oldest daughter is still small enough now for some larger ponies that she has made a name for herself in training them. I wish there were more of her around this country and then we could really see the benefit of a pony in a child's life. A well trained pony is worth it's weight and then some in gold, but they have to be trained and treated just like a larger horse.

Good Luck

 

[currycomb]

STOP FEEDING GRAIN!!!!!!!he is a pony or mini. he does not do any hard work. you are making him crazy with all this pent up energy(hormones too, just wait till spring). he needs to work a lunge line if you don't have a round pen. work him till he is tired then try petting and brushing. i never leave halters on anything. they cause the horse to be uncomfortable, and he gets numb to the feel of the halter. also he can actually kill himself by just scratching that halter that is making him uncomfortable. oh yeah, it is usually illegal to sell a horse with a retained testicle, tell the people you want your money back.

 

[dianneS]

My mini was a half dead, starvation case when I first got him, but once I got some good groceries in him, he perked up quick!

He became quite a handful. Rearing, striking, he went through a serious kicking phase. I couldn't have him gelded because his testicles hadn't dropped. Some minis don't drop until they are two years old! I was very grateful for his size. I only have older full-sized horses, I'd never have a full-sized one or two year old horse. But minis are still all horse, and a mini stallion is all stallion.

I finally discovered one testicle and a few days later BALL TWO!!! I called the vet immediately, so excited to get him gelded. What a relief. After his gelding, his obnoxious behavior changed, but not his personality.

I'm glad he didn't change all that much. I like him sassy and playful. He is still a handful at times. The first spring I clipped him, I thought he would kill me or vice versa! He still gives the farrier a hard time even though I'm clicker training him to allow more handling of his feet. My farrier said that minis are just so strong willed and bull headed, and are they ever! Some days he's great and other days he acts like he's had no training at all and completely regresses. He's still young though and big horses can do that too. My guy won't be two until May.

I'm actually doing the Parelli games with him. I do some work with the clicker as well. It really works for him, he catches on very quickly and starts thinking about what it is I want him to do. Clicker training doesn't seem to work as well for my big horse.

Danny has no repect for personal space at all. He still bites and kicks and rears at times, but he's a young horse and I knew that when I got him. I'm in it for the long haul with my guy. After bringing him back from the brink of death, we've got a pretty strong bond. I think he's going to turn out to be a great little horse and I can't wait until he's old enough to hitch to a cart! We'll be starting his ground driving this summer.

Since I got my mini up to his ideal weight, I don't grain him at all BTW.

Also, it does sound like you have a pony here, not a mini. My mini is 32 inches and 200 pounds now. He was 29 inches and less than 100 pounds of skin and bones when I got him. He was only 7 months old. As I said before, I wouldn't have a young full-sized horse, a young mini is difficult enough. A two year old horse, pony or mini is going to be a handful for anyone, even some of the most experienced horse people. Young children and young equines equal a bad combination. You should really start with a much older experienced animal for your children.

Why is he being ridden already at only two years old? That could be a reason for his bad attitude. I have no intentions of putting any weight on or behind my mini to carry or pull until he is at least three years old. Someone else mentioned that a 200 lb pony should only carry 45 pounds of weight and that is absolutley correct. My mini will only ever carry my smallest nieces and nephews, the bigger kids can go for a pony ride on my TB mare.

I feel bad for your situation. It just doesn't sound like a good match to me. Just not a wise purchase at all. By the time you get this guy trained, your kids will probably be too big for him anyway. If your kids are your main concern, as you said, you really should have done a little more research and made a wiser purchase for your children. Do yourself and this pony a favor and find him a more suitable home, or get a professional trainer if your not ready to give up on him yet. He's still so young, he could become a great little pony for someone some day.

Good luck to you and let us know how you do!

 

[annanicole18]

take his butt to the round pen and let him know who is boss. stud or not he needs to learn his manners now rather than later especially if he keeps growing!! Depending on their age let your older child lunge him when you have him more manageable so that he understands that he has to respect little people as much as big people.

 

[Barnyard]

Just a quick update on Thunder....we have had a break through Now I am not saying that we are 100%, but we are surely working on it. I have taken him off of the grain....major improvement just from that. He has settled down quiet a bit. I am hoping that he has had enough time to adjust to his new surroundings and we will be "up hill" from here. I know we still have a long way to go before this little guy will be anywhere being ready to ride, but I now feel comfortable enough to work him like he needs to be. I did have to show him I was "head mare" a few times.

Thanks everybody for your help thus far

 

[dianneS]

That's fantastic! I actually had to do the same thing with my mare, I had to get her off the grain, the protein content was too high. It turned her into a raving maniac! I also had to give her more time to adjust to her new surroundings.

She was an "only horse" when she first got here, and didn't like being alone (even though I was told she would be fine alone!) she is a really sensitive Thoroughbred and a mare (double trouble some times!) and she would throw hissy fits all the time, and was downright mean! She would buck and carry on and really tell me off if I just went out to the fence to see her! I kept taking it persoanlly too, which I should not have done.

Getting her off the grain made a big difference, but really she just needed time to adjust. It literally took her three months to get settled. Just after I had signed a sales agreement to buy her a companion to calm her down, she calmed down without the companion!

Now that I've gotten to know my mare, I realize that she is just a drama queen who doesn't like change! I know what her moods are now and know what to do to fix it, or not, if I don't feel like giving in to her demands. She will literally throw a fit if a gate is closed that is usually left open, or I'm late with her dinner! Its ridiculous, and I don't always give in to her and I don't take her fits personally anymore. I know its not me she's mad at, just the situation. Its good though because I always know when something is not right in "Ellie's world" which helps if she might be sick or injured or her little companion has slipped the fence! Ellie has tattled on her buddy already and even shown me where he escaped so I could repair the fence before he snuck out again! She certainly micromanages the entire barn!

Good luck and I hope things continue to work out, but don't get discouraged if you have a set back now and then, these things do take time.

 

[Kelly G]

I read all this....and it looks like you've had some really good advice and have made progress. Yeahhhh!!

Three words: geld him, anyway.

You'll never be sorry. Stallions are good for nothing except breeding...and it would have to be one really nice, top-notch stallion...and even then he would have to EARN the right to keep his testosterone....and I'm not sure I'd trustmy children to manage a stallion.

The only thing that's a bigger nuisance than a foal (and at least they're cute), is a stallion! Geld him!