Must-Haves for Horses..?

[patandchickens]

I want the horse shoeless, eating grass 24/7. Hay I can add from time to time, mainly in winter. Grain isn't something I'm wanting to buy.
I see two horses on a 1/3 acre lot, never ridden or taken out. They have a 4-5ft bale of hay, still have grass on the ground.

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Yes, well we all *want* the magic self-maintaining cheap-and-easy horse, don't we, but we do not always GET it, especially in the what used to be meat-price bracket

You will need to feed hay all winter, really you will (I saw the pics you posted on your other thread). Plan on 20-30 lbs of hay per day per 1000-lb horse, from sometime around your first killing frost of the Fall (or earlier) until most likely a few weeks before your last frost of the spring; AT LEAST.

I say "at least" because... those horses on a 1/3 acre with the roundbale that 'still have grass on the ground'? Either they aren't out there very long during the day, or that ain't grass, it's either inedible weeds or grass *stubble* that they pare off as fast as it grows. Really really.

If you are going to feed a horse entirely on grazing during the growing season, you need between 1-4 acres of land PER HORSE in most areas east of the Mississippi (west, it often takes more or is virtually impossible period). One acre per horse, which is frequently cited in books, is NOT a typical amount to fully support a horse; it is a reasonable allowance when horses are stalled and hayed at night. There are *a few* pastures that are so lushly growing for much of the year that they can support full-time grazing at that rate, but for most, it takes more land than that.

As a point of comparison, I can tell you that where i live right now, I have pretty average pastures (not going to win any prizes, but not "bad" or overgrazed or all-weeds, either) and it takes about 5-6 fenced acres to support 3 horses fulltime during the grazing season... and it gets real *thin* out there rather earlier than it should, I wish I had another 5 acres or so.

If you don't have a couple of acres of decent grazing per horse, you will most likely be feeding SOME hay essentially year-round, although it will be less during the growing season than the numbers I quoted you above for wintertime.

Pat is doing a great job of making me not want a horse...Don't mean that in a bad way, but...lol....jeez.

Well, you can say "jeez" all you want, but Pat has been around for a number of years and see a lot of people go down the exact same road you're on right now.

Pat has sent some of them condolences-on-the-loss-of-your-horse or get-out-of-hospital-soon cards; Pat has helped retrain some of the serious behavior problems they've innocently created; Pat has seen horses "accidentally" end up fit only for the meat auctions (which, since they don't really have them anymore, would instead mean a $600 vet-and-knacker bill). Pat knows how this all too often ends up.

Look. I am not even remotely trying to get you to not want to get a horse.

What I am trying is to get you to want to get more EDUCATION and PREPARATION before you go gettin' any horse.

For BOTH your sakes.

Pat

 

[freemotion]

And now for yet one more opinion: I agree. Whole-heartedly. I've seen too many bad things happen when people get a horse when they are not ready.....either to the horse or to the people. I've heard hundreds of people tell me they are afraid of horses because of something that happened to them....and when I ask them to describe it, the incident was 100% preventable and 1000% stupid.

My credentials: I am several decades old and spent most of those decades riding and owning horses. I spent many years teaching riding and managing a show and breeding stable. I trained many, many horses from birth to the show ring. I re-trained spoiled or scared horses. I made plenty of my own mistakes. I spent literally thousands and thousands of dollars on lessons and clinics to improve my own knowledge and skill.

Yes, you can keep a horse barefoot, but only certain horses in certain circumstances. You can buy a horse who has been kept barefoot, bring it home, and discover that in your pastures or with your riding that it cannot remain barefoot. It is a very individual thing.

You will save yourself thousands of dollars.....really, I'm not kidding.....if you spend the next couple of years getting lessons at least weekly at a local GOOD lesson stable (yes, I know group lessons are $40 an hour....cheap! When you figure out what you pay hourly for riding your own horse, compare it to lessons, financially you will opt for lessons!) The next step, while still getting lessons, is to lease or half-lease a horse for a year or so. By then you will know for sure if you really want a horse, or if you got it out of your system. And this from someone who thinks she has some equine DNA in her cells.

If you follow this advice and spend two years getting lessons and leasing, you will have a BLAST the entire time and if you are still having a blast and hungering for your own horse, then is the time that we will cheer you on and ooooo and aaaahhhh over the pics of your new mare or gelding.

Oh, and 1/3 acre will be a mud pit or dust bowl very quickly with any equine.

If you've read my posts I usually am very encouraging, so please take this in the spirit in which it is meant. It is meant to prevent you from heartache, disappointment, huge bills, and injuries. Really.

 

[patandchickens]

Well said, freemotion.

Because I know what the usual reply is, I would like to add that riding lessons are NOT at all like driving lessons, where a short course teaches you all you really need to know for most peoples' needs. (edited to clarify: I mean lessons driving a *car*, not a horse ) Even a whole year or two of casual riding lessons, in most cases, does not put you in a good place to manage or handle even straightforward horses, let alone problems as they arise.

Seriously, they are more complex than bicycles or cars or dogs. Not comparable. Need MUCH better preparation in order to have reasonable expectation of things going well.

Pat

 

[chubbydog811]

What freemotion and Pat said...Horse are NOT easy to ride, handle, or take care of! No matter what some nut job trainers/horse owners might tell you!

And my post was coming from 13 years riding, 12 of those owning. I got a horse after my first year riding (but I also picked it up quick and could ride/handle pretty much any horse the trainer threw at me at that point).
I was boarding when I got my first pony. I didn't bring her home until a year later. I was at the barn every day, learning as much as I could on the ground, in the barn, and in the saddle. Wasn't easy!
Even now, after 13 years, and teaching/training other people for half of that time, I still take lessons...You can never know enough. That is the key with horses (and anything in life): You never know everything, and HAVE to be willing to listen to advice from people who have more/different knowledge than you.

 

[secuono]

The horse will be alone on a little over 4 acres. I plan on buying hay fall/winter, but so far the only place I can get it from with my car is TSC, so their schedule or bust.
I've read a lot about natural shoeless horses and I can't agree with you that it's anything like that. 1yr or more transition, on just grass never anything else, it'll be fine.
No idea where you are getting what we call 'free' lessons, mine were $120 per 45min, 1x a wk, for 6wks.

Either way, something killed 60+ chickens last night, so I won't be here much for awhile.

 

[patandchickens]

The horse will be alone on a little over 4 acres. I plan on buying hay fall/winter, but so far the only place I can get it from with my car is TSC, so their schedule or bust.

I thought this was going to be two horses and some sheep? Anyhow, not gonna work as written here.... you can't realistically provision a horse by buying individual bales from TSC in your car.

Instead, what you need to do is get a good big delivery of hay (either pay the farmer to deliver, or rent a U-haul type truck and pick it up yourself) in the early Fall, preferably enough to last you thru the whole winter and spring. If not that, then be VERY attentive about restocking WELL BEFORE there is any possibility of snow blocking access, and remember that hay prices go up throughout the winter. Make sure your storage space has absolutely ZERO roof leaks above it, and store the hay up on at least one thickness of pallets, ideally with airspace left between the haybale stack and the barn walls.

Hay from the hay guy is likely to be cheaper (and quite possibly better) than hay from TSC anyhow

It is ABSOLUTELY CRUCIAL that you always have at least several weeks supply of hay on the property. I don't mean restock it every several weeks, I mean have several weeks' worth sitting in the barn AT ANY GIVEN MOMENT. Run out of hay, colicky or dead horse. Period. "It was the snowstorm of the century, it's not my fault I ran out of hay" does not cut it. Have the hay in the barn.

I've read a lot about natural shoeless horses and I can't agree with you that it's anything like that. 1yr or more transition, on just grass never anything else, it'll be fine.

Ah, reading. Reading is nice. REading is useful.

However out here in the actual real world, it often does not work quite that way all the time

So it would be wise to at least consider the reports being communicated to you from here in the real world

Sorry bout your chickens, hope you can get that fixed somehow,

Pat

 

[secuono]

The horse will be alone on a little over 4 acres. I plan on buying hay fall/winter, but so far the only place I can get it from with my car is TSC, so their schedule or bust.

I thought this was going to be two horses and some sheep? Anyhow, not gonna work as written here.... you can't realistically provision a horse by buying individual bales from TSC in your car.

Instead, what you need to do is get a good big delivery of hay (either pay the farmer to deliver, or rent a U-haul type truck and pick it up yourself) in the early Fall, preferably enough to last you thru the whole winter and spring. If not that, then be VERY attentive about restocking WELL BEFORE there is any possibility of snow blocking access, and remember that hay prices go up throughout the winter. Make sure your storage space has absolutely ZERO roof leaks above it, and store the hay up on at least one thickness of pallets, ideally with airspace left between the haybale stack and the barn walls.

Hay from the hay guy is likely to be cheaper (and quite possibly better) than hay from TSC anyhow

It is ABSOLUTELY CRUCIAL that you always have at least several weeks supply of hay on the property. I don't mean restock it every several weeks, I mean have several weeks' worth sitting in the barn AT ANY GIVEN MOMENT. Run out of hay, colicky or dead horse. Period. "It was the snowstorm of the century, it's not my fault I ran out of hay" does not cut it. Have the hay in the barn.

I've read a lot about natural shoeless horses and I can't agree with you that it's anything like that. 1yr or more transition, on just grass never anything else, it'll be fine.

Ah, reading. Reading is nice. REading is useful.

However out here in the actual real world, it often does not work quite that way all the time

So it would be wise to at least consider the reports being communicated to you from here in the real world

Sorry bout your chickens, hope you can get that fixed somehow,

Pat

That's why I post Qs on here, they may sound stupid or questions I should know the answer to already, but that is what this site is for. So I can re-ask all the Qs floating in my head, to get answers from 'real' people and not books or years old threads.
As far as snow, 2yrs ago we got 2ft, other than that, rarely snows enough or lasts longer than two days.
And the car, I can fit 6-8 40lbs bales at a time, drive back n forth, every day after work and pick up more and more and stock pile, no issue on that. I said I needed to work on finding a hay person by fall, It'll get done, just takes forever when your in the middle of nowhere and no body wants to help you out with just 50 bales at a time.
Yes, I realize the chickens mean near nothing to most people. But I put a ton of time, sweat, blood, $, heartache into them. They used to live free and were the happiest dang 80ish birds you'd ever see.

 

[carolinagirl]

It's understandable that you have questions and yes...that is what this board is for. But the time to ask them is prior to making arrangements to have a horse delivered at the end of the week as you originally planned when you started asking! The fencing issues, the needed supplies, feeding, farrier, etc. This is all stuff that needs to be in place prior to even shopping for a horse. Just slow down. The right horse will come along at the right time, after all prior planning has been carefully researched and carried out. I know it's hard to wait when you have your mind set on something.

 

[michickenwrangler]

6-8 40 lb bales is 240-320 lbs. Making multiple trips is NOT good for the suspension of your vehicle.

Honestly, not to discourage you, but it takes YEARS of experience with horses to have a horse. They are not for casual buyers.

Yes, many people put up a fence, buy some hay, and get a horse. BUT many of these people are not educated and often buy horses they cannot, do not or will not ride.

Lugging 40 lbs bales even through a few inches of snow is hard work. You can feed small amounts off a round bale, but realistically you'll need a tractor for round bales.

The weight of horses combined with grazing will quickly destroy grass roots and 1 horse on 1/3 of an acre will wear it down. 1 horse usually eventually means 2 horses. Yes, there are people who only have 1 horse, but again, it is not an ideal situation. Horses are herd animals. They need companionship.

Not all horses can be barefoot as well. Depends on the individual horse and the terrain. Do more education, talk to local owners and farriers. Not all horses can survive on just grass and hay. At the very least you'll need a mineral block. Know what minerals your local hay/soil are deficient in. Here in the Great Lakes, it is selenium and copper, yet we have a lot of calcium and iron. EVen different areas of the state or county have different nutritional contents.

Really, you need to have a few years of riding under your belt along with working or helping at a barn or EXPERIENCED horse owner before you take the plunge. A horse can/will hurt you (accidentally) a LOT faster than any other domesticated animal.

 

[patandchickens]

Lugging 40 lbs bales even through a few inches of snow is hard work.

In the interest of disseminating information *and* proving I *am* trying to help rather than merely be a wet blanket <g>, I would point out that a plastic kiddie sled (toboggan/boat style) makes this pretty easy, at least once you've tromped an initial path if the snow is deep

However, at the same time,

As far as snow, 2yrs ago we got 2ft, other than that, rarely snows enough or lasts longer than two days.

I do not think you are hearing me. It is not just snow, it is ANY OF A LOT OF REASONS why having only a week or two supply of hay is dangerous. What happens if your car breaks down? What happens if you are snowed in for two days at the same time as you discover half the bales you bought are moldy? Or... and this is honestly by far the most common reason for people running out of hay... what happens if your supplier runs out temporarily? This is really not AT ALL uncommon.

It is not a matter of "oh well he will survive being hungry for a day or two and I can feed him apples and oatmeal out of the kitchen." That does not do it. Horses need large amounts of roughage and they need it more or less continually, not let's skip a day. Colic is not infrequently fatal. You just CANNOT be in a position where you could even POSSIBLY run out of hay.

A number of horses also cannot deal gracefully with switching batches of hay every week or two, *that* can make them colicky. If you buy car-size batches from TSC they WILL be from different batches, sometimes very very different.

So the number of bales you can cram into a car is not really even relevant here IMHO. Even if your TSC sells hay (I didn't realize any of them do, I suppose it doesn't surprise me tho) it will be more expensive for decent quality and will come in too-small amounts and from too-diverse batches.

You simply need to find a farmer or hay dealer. It is really not difficult at all (tho this time of year you would have a bit more trouble and spend more for the hay, simply b/c it is late in the season). I would recommend taking along an experienced horse person to check the hay out with you before you buy, or at least talk to some local GOOD boarding/breeding barns (i.e. not people who are tending to cut corners) and find out where they recommend you get your hay from.

As with horses, not all hay is created equal, there is great hay, good hay, perfectly-fine-for-idle-horses-with-a-ration-balancer hay, poor hay that your horse will dwindle on, and actively-bad hay that can make him sick or dead. It is NOT just a matter of is it green and nice-smelling. Protein % is a significant issue and for that you need either a lab analysis or advice from a very experienced person.

(Another advantage, therefore, of buying your whole winter's or year's worth of hay at once, aside from convenience and price, is that you will only have to worry about quality and shopping *once* )

Pat