My 2 Goats are coughing...

[savingdogs]

This thread interests me because I've been researching worming in goats as well.

While I'm no expert and I'm here to learn, the veterinary text that I am currently reading very clearly states that in the presence of no worms, the goat is succeptable to an infestation of worms when it does encounter them because it will have no resistance to them. It states that seeing a low egg count is best because it shows that the goat has a few worms but has built up its own system to offset them, and THAT is what you want to see.

It said goats without any worms need to be very carefully introduced to other goats as wormy goats could make them very sick. Not saying to GIVE them worms, but to be careful!

Perhaps one of you goat experts can let me know if this would apply to Chicos Mama. I hope everyone on this thread can remain polite so this does not become a thread about who insulted whom, can we keep the topic to coughing goats and lungworms?

 

[adoptedbyachicken]

I hope everyone on this thread can remain polite so this does not become a thread about who insulted whom, can we keep the topic to coughing goats and lungworms?

Excellent idea! Yes, let's review the rules that include:

3. No Flaming (verbally attacking people or groups of people - e.g. a profession, an organization, a company.)

5. No teasing, mocking, ridiculing, or otherwise making fun at other member's expense.

And then carry on with the thread on topic.

 

[ohiofarmgirl]

Edited to remove moderated material

 

[()relics]

...Big Hats No Cattle...take advice from whoever you like...and just a quote from one of our favorite unmentionables :

Now, the big question, how many eggs can the goat have and be OK. How many mean an infestation? ALL GOATS HAVE SOME WORMS, so, do not panic if you find worm eggs in the sample, that is normal. There is no shame if your goat has worms. You just don't want lots of eggs. It's hard for me to tell you exactly what number is OK and what number of eggs is bad. Every situation is different. A healthy goat that has built up natural resistance to worms can handle a larger wormload than an unhealthy goat. The goal is not to have your goats be totally worm free, but just to maintain a consistent low wormload, with the goat showing no signs of parasite infestation. It this way, the goat builds natural resistance/immunity to worms. I do not worry about anything under 10 eggs. If I count in the teens, I still may not worry too much, depending on the health of the goat. If I counted over 20 eggs, I would probably treat the goat with a double dose of wormwood wormer for 3 days.

http://fiascofarm.com/goats/fecals.htm
Personally I question my own source but Everyone else seems to think this person has all the answers...on this statement we agree, not much else.

 

[cmjust0]

Some goats can manage worms better than other goats, either through outright resistance or through resilience to the detrimental effect of the worms.

If I had to choose between purchasing two goats -- one on a drylot w/ a FEC of zero, and another on pasture who's rarely dewormed yet maintains a low FEC even during peak worm season -- I'm taking the low FEC goat. Reason being, it's going to have access to pasture (and, therefore, worms) when I get it here, and it's already proving to have some resistance. If I were going to put it on a drylot and feed it hay and grain exclusively, though, it wouldn't really matter either way.

So as for which is better, I guess it really all just depends on what you intend to do with the goat..

As for the OP's coughing goats, I wouldn't suspect lungworm simply because she's not in lungworm country. Goats have to eat snails and slugs in order to get lungworms, and the hot, dry conditions of Arizona wouldn't *seem* to lend themselves to an abundance of snails and slugs. You see that sort of thing more in the Pacific Northwest and other places where it's temperate and rains a lot.

My guess....dust+heat+exercise->cough. I do that myself.

As for the scour, who knows.. Most cases of scour can be traced back to a handful of conditions: dietary, bacterial, coccidia, intestinal worms..

If it's a simple dietary scour, the goat should act more or less normally -- maybe a little blah, but not overly depressed -- and the scour will often be really green in color.. The only dietary-related scour that would really concern me would be due to acidosis from grain overload, but usually those scours aren't green, are more profuse, and the goat won't act normally.. Acidosis can be deadly, not to mention painful, and the goat will demonstrate its discomfort by looking 'roached up,' grinding teeth, etc..

A bacterial scour is like dysentary, basically.. It's analogous to true food poisoning in humans, which goes far beyond simply making an ill-advised "run for the border" at 1am after a long hiatus from spicy food. What that 'run' gives you is *a case of the runs,* which is basically the simple dietary scour mentioned above.. It's totally different from actual food poisoning, from which you get fever, the chills, profuse "dirty water" diarrhea, and basically feel like you wish you'd just go ahead and die to get it over with. That's a bacterial scour. Bacterial scours -- e.coli or salmonellosis, for instance -- kill both humans and goats alike. They're nothing to be messed around with.

Coccidia?...two fat goats at 9mo of age with no obvious stressor having loose-ish poops doesn't scream coccidiosis to me. If we were talking about two kids under 6mo who weren't thriving and who were having dark, foul, watery, bloody, and/or mucousy poops, then yeah.. This particular situation, however?...not so much. Possible, I guess, but I wouldn't bet on it..

It's been my experience that there are intestinal worms out there which can lead to diarrhea, and I don't just mean tapeworms. I've never seen a tape, but I have seen on-again/off-again scours in FAMACHA-awesome goats that clear after a "uhhh, maybe it's worms?"-based deworming. I can also tell you that some instestinal worms actually do thrive in the bedding of stalls or simply in the dirt, unlike the barberpole which requires grass to complete its life-cycle. So, even if the goats are off pasture, intestinal worms are something I'd probably still at least consider to be a possibility here..

Would I deworm them?...probably, if they haven't been dewormed with much other than herbals. I don't believe in herbal dewormers, though, and that's just me.. But I'd probably give an ivomec 1% injectable med orally at a rate of 3-4ml/100lbs of goat, just to be on the safe side. I'd also consider treating them with another class of dewormer -- a white dewormer like Safe-Guard or Valbazen, for instance -- just to cover any kind of worm that isn't covered by Ivomec.. Tapes are a good example.. The dosage I use with Safe-Guard these days is 1ml/10lbs of goat, 1x/day for 3 days.

Will deworming solve the problem?...hell, I dunno. Maybe. Maybe not. Could be strictly dietary, which should resolve on it's own, or perhaps with the help of a little pepto and being kept off grain for a few days and then re-introduced slowly.. Or it could be a really mild bacterial scour that looks more dietary than anything else...I've had that happen, too, at least as evidenced by goats that kept a "dietary" scour for DAYS only to clear up with a short round of oral antibiotics. Or it could be a very minor coccidia flare up for some reason, which looks dietary and will be cleared up by the goat with no intervention..

The bottom line, unfortunately, is that raising goats can be a real PITA and sometimes you just kinda have to throw something at the wall to see what sticks.

 

[reinbeau]

Yet another goat thread closed due to unnecessary sarcasm.