My Sheep Journal~ I'm a grandma! Black Betty had twins!!!

[Beekissed]

These pups were not getting enough nutrition when I got them and they eat like they are starving, even yet.

Its tempting to feed, feed, feed them until that wolfing down the food thingy disappears but everything I've read about Newfies says to not give into that temptation, as their bones cannot take the added stress of being overweight when they are growing.

Still....I just can't bear to think of them feeling hungry and probably feed them a little too much right now. Just until they get some weight on their ribs......

I thought the same thing about their breeding....oughta be interesting to see what they look like later on!

 

[goodhors]

You might want to do worm checks on the pups, get anything cleared up. Puppies seem to get worms in a heartbeat.

You probably will NOT get ribs covered until pups are LOTS OLDER. None of our pups ever had fat layers over the ribs and they had excellent care. Just like with children, foals, you WANT the ribs to be feelable, just a thin layer of muscle over it. They will feel ribby, which is fine if you KNOW they are getting correct amounts of the right kind of food. Thinner kids, foals, pups, mean they run and play more, develop better without the poundage on young, SOFT bones. Soft bones, joints, can't manage the stress of weight impact well. You pay later when dog gets crippled up with joint damage at young ages.

Our young horses have a "racehorse look" until they mature at ages 7 or so. You glimpse a couple ribs when they bend, bellies are neatly tucked up, very trim looking. It is unhealthy for young horses to be fat, too much weight for their bones, also breakdown young. But fat is a sign of successful advertising, photos we see the most. Now we EXPECT all our animals to be fat from birth to death, even though we KNOW fat is unhealthy for them. Ours are big horses, take longer to grow up, get hard bones and joints as mature animals. Skinny kids also take a long time to grow up, so we need to keep their weight down on those young bones when they play so hard. This was why I brought up the need to feed such large breeds their puppy food with extra nutrition, so much longer than just 12 months. Dog is not mature at one year old!

Keeping the pups worm free, fed adequate amounts on schedule, will insure they are getting enough to grow with. Ribby is fine, healthier for the dog. Good coat, shiny eyes, plenty of energy, those are signs of good diet. Fat, lumpy puppies who sit about, have a bunch of problems ahead.

I have found the cow hooves at the pet stores are great for chewing with young dogs. For some reason dogs don't barf with the purchaed hooves, like farrier trimmings after horse is trimmed. I could not keep the proper raw bones on hand for my last pup, so the cow hooves worked VERY well. She still likes them a lot and they last for more than a day! She is a Bouvier, has very strong jaw so most bones are gone fast.

 

[Beekissed]

I wormed them as soon as they hit this door...you wanna see the monsters that rolled out????

I'd never had pups this small and had never seen this type of worm in any of my animals before...the most we have had are pinworm-type worms.

These came out within an hour and a half of the deworming:

This pup had a total of 3 bunches just like this of approx. 50 3-4 in. worms per bowel movement. I called the place I got him and told them so they could worm their dogs.

Wormed at 4 wks. and again at 7 wks. to see if we got most of the monsters within.

These pups seem pretty active and bright-eyed....I'll try not to make them too fat. Right now it seems as if they are burning off most of what they eat....no rolly-polly tummies by feeding time.

 

[jhm47]

I can't believe you actually took pictures of these, but thanks a lot---it ruined my appetite for tonight!

Ascarids (commonly known as large roundworms) are very common in dogs. Puppies are actually infested in utero, and are born with them. Kittens can actually contract them from their mother's milk. Humans are also not immune, and it is a common parasite among third world countries.

There are many effective treatments for them, and one of the most common and cost-effective is Ivomec.

 

[Beekissed]

I used Strongid paste...pyrantel pamoate. I worm all my nonfood animals with horse wormer as it is the cheapest per volume. I can get a whole tube for around $8 and it last a long time.

I took the pics to show my sis...she got one of these pups too. I hadn't seen anything like this from any pet I'd ever owned, so I thought a pic for posterity....

 

[goodhors]

Do NOT use the Ivermectins (read ingredients in wormer on labels) for any of the Collie breeds or Collie mixes. You need to read the labels, to know what is in the wormer, not just the name brand.

For some reason the Collie breeding will react VERY badly to Ivermectin, with many dying after ingestion at horse barns.

This can include licking up ANY wormer meds your horse drools out when you worm him! DO NOT let the dog be in the barn while worming horses, so you can clean the floor of dribbles before dog licks them up.

All the horse forums repeatedly post about the Ivermectin/Collie problem on worming day, especially after losing their dog to dribbled wormer. For some reason the Collie blood makes the dog react very badly to miniscule amounts of wormer. Horse Ivermectin meds are not good for any dog, but pretty fatal to dogs with Collie blood.

 

[Beekissed]

No worries...I wouldn't use Ivermectin on any of my animals.

 

[Beekissed]

Well, the self-feeding hay storage idea is really taking off right now and working well. No waste as of right now. I will have to monitor just how they eat into the stack and move the hay down accordingly, maybe.

Right now I have two that are eating at their level and lower and one that is standing on her hind legs and eating higher. I don't particularly like that as I've heard it can lead to prolapse, so I may mount a strip of tin across the top as a deterrent to this behaviour.

Anyone else doing self-feeding stations where you don't have to move/lift bales of hay this winter?

My self-feeder consists of a cattle panel fitted tightly across the hay in my shed, then I cut the strings on the bales. As they eat into the stack, I will tighten the panel into it.

The idea is to let them eat through the cattle panel to eliminate waste and to keep me from having to slog through their pen to feed fresh hay every day. This is the first time I've tried this idea and I hadn't seen anyone else doing this, so I'm hoping it works.

 

[freemotion]

My goats would pull all the hay that they could reach into their pen on the first day and pee on it, then look at me like, "We're starving! Feed us!!!!"

I hope it works well. It is a great idea. Don't you think your girls will get fat? Or were you offering hay free-choice before this?

I had to make a bunch of hay bags with tiny openings since my girls were really wasting (see above comment!) the leafy third cut hay I got this year. It seems to be working. I run out and hang hay bags for an hour, then go out later and feed and milk. While Mya is finishing up her larger serving of grain and veggies, I gather up all the empty bags and refill them for the next feeding. So far, so good. Lots of work, though, but less money spent on...bedding.

 

[Beekissed]

I was more or less offering free choice before, just putting out a hay bunker full and waiting until they ate it before refilling. I didn't put a cover over it after awhile, but found that they loved to climb into the bunker and sleep...and pee...and poop.

So...I was having to lift a cover, carry and lift a hay bale into the bunker, remove the twine and close and tie the cover over the bunker.

My back is getting worse, so hefting those hay bales and such was getting old. So, I got to thinking...what would Joel do? He'd find a better way, that's what!

These gals are already fat! This hay isn't primo hay, so I doubt they will get overly fat on it. I don't think the squares in the cattle panel will allow too much hay to be pulled out at a time, plus the panel is pretty tight against the hay, so I haven't seen very much waste yet. They can only pull out small mouthfuls at a time.

I'll try to post a pic of it tomorrow.