ND Goat with ultra dry, flaking skin - Vet suggests euthanizing?

[WildOaksManor]

I am going to say this, and it is in no way directed at you, because you are obviously doing all you can for her... So please don't take offense. But I would find another vet if you can. A vet who recommends pour on Ivermectin for goats is not who I would trust to tell me a goat needs to be put down.

Sorry about your girl, I can tell she's loved.

No offense taken. I have not used him for long, although he has been in practice locally as a equine and farm animal vet for over 30 years, and is well respected by our 4H group, and my local goat/sheep friends, and came recommended by several people. I'll admit, I don't know enough about goats yet to question any of his recommendations, but maybe a second opinion is a good idea. We are in a rural area, and I wonder how many other options I have, but I will look into it, thanks!

 

[NH homesteader]

I've never personally had an experience with using a pour on but I've heard it can burn their skin and never to use it. Of course with goats few agree on much!

It is hard to find a good vet. Especially in rural areas. I drive 50 minutes one way for mine (there is one closer I can call for emergencies if I have to).

Poor girl can't be enjoying this at all.

 

[Bruce]

If I used castor oil, do you think I could apply it and leave her outside, or would that not be good in 30' temps?

I don't see why not since people put it on their chickens' combs to stave off frostbite. Nobody worries about frostbite at 30F. It does stay wet for a while so I never put it on my wart just before I went to bed. Didn't need it rubbing off on the sheets. You can certainly put it on areas where she won't just rub it in the dirt when she goes to sleep. Or maybe you have a clean stall/area with straw or hay for bedding? You don't need to soak her in it just get a thin film on her skin problem areas. If you have any on hand, start with the worst areas. It doesn't sting or anything so no concern about putting in on raw skin. If it seems to help after a couple of days, get the BIG bottle (whatever that is) since you have a large area (of a small goat) to deal with.

 

[OneFineAcre]

Is your little gal getting minerals? There is evidence that a zinc deficiency can cause skin issues. Google it and see if you find matching symptoms. She sure is a cutie - good luck with her!

x 2

 

[OneFineAcre]

Using Ivermectin pour on would not be my first choice for worming a goat.

But, using an ivermectin pour on would not be harmful to a goat. Ivermectin is a pretty innocuous product. They give it to people in other countries.

I don't think that is the problem with your goat, unless there is an outside chance that she was allergic to it.

 

[NH homesteader]

Sorry I realized it sounded like I was implying that was the cause. I just thought euthanizing her was an extreme suggestion and perhaps his choice of dewormer would make me less interested in hearing that recommendation. Even if it did harm her skin I don't think it would be all over her body.

A mineral analysis would be a good start. Zinc deficiency is at least partially hereditary correct? Her sister has similar issues so worth checking.

 

[Southern by choice]

With that kind of recommendation a second opinion is most certainly warranted.
Although his diagnosis may actually be correct.

There are several factors I see as problematic and do suggest seeking another opinion.
Personally I use several vets, all with their different philosophies and areas of expertise. A good example is a goat that we acquired that came in with severe hoof issues.
We worked on these hooves for a long time after the original sedation necessary to just take off the gross infection and overgrowth. When working on the hooves for months and still never getting them healed I called one of our other vets. I respect both vets but the second vet had some other ideas, using a method typically used on horses and cows... this method cleared it right up!

So........... what I am saying is sometimes it is advantageous to seek another opinion.

Almost ALL literature regarding pour on says NEVER to use on goats.
The fact that it was used for cocci

Can you tell me what the dangers of the Ivermectin pour on, vs. the oral dose is? It was originally prescribed because one of my older goats came down with a coccidia overload, and also had mites (only one in the herd) and he decided to opt for the pour on for all of them, to prevent the mites from spreading, and bring everyone's wormings UTD.. He dosed according to their weight.

is questionable. Dewormers do not treat Coccidia.

No skin plug - he searched her and several others carefully for signs of mites, but didn't see any, and concluded that the Ivermectin would have taken care of them, (Administered Sept 30, 2016) if she did have them. No skin scraping, although he mentioned it. I think he was confident enough in his diagnosis to not think it necessary. No culture for staph - I'll ask about that.

Mites are microscopic and are not seen by the naked eye such as lice can be. Although skin scraping are quite ineffective because you must actually get the scraping to contain the mite. Generally the area that "looks" affected is where a mite has already been... it moves on to fresh areas. As far as fungal infection. Good probability however this can be cultured and confirmed. This IMO is a no brainer.

I really think you should have a blood draw and serum sent for a basic mineral analysis. The test (depending on where it is sent) cost about $35.
If this is a deficiency it will show.
Sometimes there are combinations of things that just happen at once and yet are easy to remedy.

If indeed it is an immune issue and will cause constant irritation and scratching then I believe euthanasia is best.

 

[OneFineAcre]

We worked on these hooves for a long time after the original sedation necessary to just take off the gross infection and overgrowth. When working on the hooves for months and still never getting them healed I called one of our other vets. I respect both vets but the second vet had some other ideas, using a method typically used on horses and cows... this method cleared it right up!

So........... what I am saying is sometimes it is advantageous to seek another opinion.

Almost ALL literature regarding pour on says NEVER to use on goats.
The fact that it was used for cocci

is questionable. Dewormers do not treat Coccidia.


Mites are microscopic and are not seen by the naked eye such as lice can be. Although skin scraping are quite ineffective because you must actually get the scraping to contain the mite. Generally the area that "looks" affected is where a mite has already been... it moves on to fresh areas. As far as fungal infection. Good probability however this can be cultured and confirmed. This IMO is a no brainer.

I really think you should have a blood draw and serum sent for a basic mineral analysis. The test (depending on where it is sent) cost about $35.
If this is a deficiency it will show.
Sometimes there are combinations of things that just happen at once and yet are easy to remedy.

If indeed it is an immune issue and will cause constant irritation and scratching then I believe euthanasia is best.

I can't find any literature that says you shouldn't use it as a pour on for goats?




IVOMEC® POUR-ON FOR CATTLE
Ivermectin Pour-On for Cattle
This is a cattle product but is commonly used on goats as Off Label- we use it at the rate of 1cc/20lbs in a syringe with no needle dribbles along the back line from neck to tail- directly on the skin for the control and effective removal of Biting lice and other external parasites. Even though this is also a dewormer, it is not effective as a dewormer on goats- Only as an external parasite control- you still need to deworm your goats for internal parasites. Ivermectin pour-on is the only effective parasite control I have seen that effectively rids the goat of Biting lice- This is equal to Ivomec PourOn.

Added Note: Ivomec injectable for cattle is effective against lice for Cattle but not for goats, they have a different metabolism therefore the injectable will not kill lice on goats - therefore the pour on is needed for lice removal.

 

[Southern by choice]

https://media.wix.com/ugd/aded98_c7a6cc3b624043aeaefe8693f9f13c71.pdf
pg2-
With the exception of fenbendazole administered at the 5 mg/kg dose, these drugs are not approved by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for use in goats, and when used in goats are considered extra label use. Fenbendazole at the recommended dose rate of 10 mg/kg is also considered extra-label usage. The FDA regards extra-label use of drugs as an exclusive privilege of the veterinary profession and is only permitted when a bona fide veterinarian-client-patient relationship exists and an appropriate medical diagnosis has been made. The following chart is intended to serve as a guideline for improving accuracy when dosing goats with an anthelmintic, but these drugs should be used in goats only when appropriate veterinary advice has been received. Cattle pour-on dewormers should NEVER be used in goats to treat internal parasites

The op mentioned-

Can you tell me what the dangers of the Ivermectin pour on, vs. the oral dose is? It was originally prescribed because one of my older goats came down with a coccidia overload, and also had mites (only one in the herd) and he decided to opt for the pour on for all of them, to prevent the mites from spreading, and bring everyone's wormings UTD.. He dosed according to their weight.

 

[Bruce]

That is pretty black and white (changed by @Southern by choice to red to make it obvious here). Sounds like at least 1 vet needs to bone up on his treatment options.