Need advice about feeding hay while renovating pasture

[Duckfarmerpa1]

Oh, yes..if goats are new for you..read up, read up read up! They are FAR more complicated than anyone would imagine..and then if you do want them for dairy..getting them to kid...oh geez...just ask me how much stress it is ? no, it’s wonderful!! But, not like getting a dog or chickens. So, do your research before getting them. We got them from a bad farmer...so we weren’t prepared. So it was crunch time! Hard work and dedication. But they only produce milk for a certain period. But, I’m sure you know all that. They are a blast, but definitely don’t get them half hearted..because you won’t be happy.

 

[matchadog]

I am not sure why you are so terribly worried about the tall fescue for the goats. The toxic endophytes occur mostly if the plants are stressed.
I'm concerned about it because I've read that it was toxic. I have not read that endophytes only occur if the plants are stressed. I'm operating under the assumption that the species of fescue is the issue, not the stress of the plant. How would I know if it is stressed?
That will not be the case if the goats are grazing it regularly in area 2.
Area 2 is off limits due to the foxtail. I'm hoping that I can eliminate it over the course of the next year. Given that there is tall fescue there as well, I'm leaning towards overseeding with forage once the foxtail is dealt with. Clover, maybe?
Goats are first and foremost browsers. They want to get into vines, and briers, and "scrub brush" to chew on. GOOD QUALITY hay is great, but they will walk away from it if they have some good old fashioned rough ground to go nibble on branches and twigs etc. It's their nature. That is why they are so good at clearing land, because they will devour all the stuff that you find to be undesireable. That's not to say that you shouldn't provide them with good nutrition. But they will go after what they want and what their bodies crave.
There is very little of what you're describing on my property. There is a shady area to the east of my garage that is probably the closest thing we have to browse. Where all of the snakes seem to like to hide. They will have access to it up until the point where the foxtail heads start appearing. This isn't the main source of foxtail on the property but there is some in that area as well. Who knows, maybe we will get lucky and they will eat it all before it sprouts its ugly little head.
If you have any trees that you don't want damaged, make sure the goats cannot get to them. They will strip the bark off trees as high as they can reach up.
Yes, thank you. I'm planning on doing that very thing.
So to answer the question.... no you do not have to eradicate tall fescue. They will do alot of ignoring it if they have better feed available.
This is why I'm asking about the hay. Because my current options outside of the small area I just described are either tall fescue or foxtail. If I had a better option, I would be using it.
The foxtail is not something I know about because it just isn't something that is in Va..
It isn't worth the risk. It gets lodged in their eyes, mouth, etc. It is nasty stuff, I won't let my dogs near it.
Is there a co-op, feed store, or something in the area? Our co-op is associated with Southern States. They have field guys who help people with "deciding what to do with their land".... advise on spraying, how to renovate a field, crops or grasses to plant and all that.
I think that you really need to talk to someone in the Extension service for your county. Your tax dollars helps to pay for them, so get an extension agent to come out, give you some ideas. That is their job. Get an "expert" opinion on what type of grass you have. See if there is anyone in the area that has goats. Maybe a goat breeders group. Get some ideas from them or have a fellow goat person come out and look it over and tell them what you want to do.
I've been talking to these folks since September about this field albeit mostly about eradicating the foxtail. I would do this regardless of our intention of getting goats because the foxtail is rendering half of my land useless. It was a conversation with the local agronomy center about all of this that led to the topic of what to replant once the foxtail was gone. Fescue was the "easy" option given that I don't have a way to spread seed, disc harrow, till, etc. The agronomy center will come out and fertilize but that is it. I've talked to the extension office as well. I was all set to just plant the whole damn property with fescue until I googled "fescue and goats" which is what started this whole thing.
You are going to have parasites in goats. In a rotational grazing situation, you will have less problems normally. But if you are planning to have them in a "safe pen" for their protection from predators, then you will have parasites. Some animals are more resistant to them. You learn to deal with them, how to breed to build up resistance.
I know we will have to deal with them, my goal was simply to keep the burden as low as I can with this setup.
Have you milked goats before or is this a new venture? You will have to have a male at some point in time to get them pregnant, so they can kid and then produce milk. If they are just going to be pets, then wethers would be better for you. I really think that you need to find a friend/mentor in the area that's "been there done that" to help you get started on it.
This is a new venture but I have been doing my due diligence for several years. I know what we are getting into. Bucks for "rent" are available in the area. I have a reputable breeder I'm working with that will be my mentor. We bought our property with the intent of having a hobby farm and ND goats have been part of that plan from the very beginning. It was a not insignificant part of why we moved to an agricultural area.
Have you considered electric netting for fencing to allow them to graze in the area 2? It is a good deterrent for dogs and coyotes etc..... the electric shock will keep alot of predators away especially if it is only a "day pen".
I am not using area 2 until the foxtail is gone. If it is gone a year from now, yes I would consider it. We use electric fencing on all of our chicken coops and it will definitely be a component of our predator proofing in the goat area as well. I've read that ND are hard to contain with electric fencing. I don't know why that would be but I've seen it mentioned more than once. We've always used electric fencing to keep critters out rather than for containment.

 

[farmerjan]

I appreciate you taking the time to address all the things I mentioned. I was a bit lax in my statement about the toxicity of the endophyte infected fescue. I said about it being stressed, but that was supposed to be for sudan and sorghum and johnson grass. You are right, it is the species/strain of fescue that has the toxic endophytes. 99 % of all fescue that grows voluntarily is endophyte infected. If you were to plant Max Q and it were to go to seed with a endophyte variety near it, the resulting seeds would develop into a plant that was infected. It is "dominant". But, the stress is from where it will grow when some other grasses won't, then in the heat of the summer, it is more available and the animals will eat it because there isn't much of anything else. Keeping it cut shorter seems to cut the toxic effects. But fescue is most every where.

Be careful with clover. It will cause bloat in cattle, sheep and goats. Especially the lush spring growth., and after a rain when it is wet. If mixed in a pasture mix then it won't be so bad but it needs to be a smaller percentage of the mix. It is great for adding nitrogen to the soil. But the effects of too much clover is similar to too much alfalfa. And the clover is usually not as coarse a stalk/stem as alfalfa, so more palatable. We have clover in all our pastures, but the animals are used to it, from the time it starts to green up so don't get too much all at once.

It does sound like you have done and are continuing to do your due diligence on the research etc., on the goats. If you like and respect the ones you are getting your goats from, and they are your mentors, then they are the ones you should be listening to.
I am surprised that the extension office can't put you in touch with a farmer or someone that could do the whole renovation for you; someone that has the equipment to get it done. But, then again, there are extension people then there are "extension service people".....
Sounds like the foxtail is just plain miserable. Sorry you have to deal with it. If you keep it mowed before it makes a seed head is it something that can be dealt with? I have no idea......
Be careful of too much fertilizer on the fescue. I have heard that it can actually increase the endophyte problem.

Dry lotting goats or sheep will actually keep them from getting terrible parasite problems. It is what we do with the sheep to try to cut the parasite problems in the spring and in any wet conditions. The larvae hatch and climb up the stems of the grass and the sheep/goats/cattle ingest them when they eat the grass. Allowing the grass to get a bit taller will help too as sheep will eat it right down to the roots and they will get more larvae from the stem area closer to the ground. I imagine it is the same for the goats. They can pick up some from the ground but it is less likely as from pasture. We had a terrible time of it for 2 years that we were exceptionally wet. But the sheep tend to be much less resistant than the cattle.

One other thing that I do, is in all our custom mixes of feed and mineral, I have DE (diatomaceous earth) added to all my formulations. Including the poultry feed. We have much lower incidences of worms or "wormy looking" animals. You can incorporate it into your feed by hand also. Use it in the "dust boxes" for the poultry too. The sheep are the most susceptible to worms of all the animals we have, but the DE in the feed and mineral helps.

Didn't know that NG's don't stay in the electric netting as well as they should. It seems to work pretty good on all our animals that have been taught to be respectful of it. We don't use alot of it with the cattle because at the rented pastures, there are so many deer that they just run through it and it gets torn down alot.

 

[YourRabbitGirl]

I am a little overwhelmed and need some advice. Long story short-

I bought a home on 4.5 acres a little over a year ago. About half of my land is pasture that the previous owner let get completely overgrown with foxtail. Not knowing any better, I let it get tall last summer and go to seed. I mowed it short with my zero turn after it had started to die-September or October. The other half of my property-the area around my house-is some type of cool season grass. I have no idea what variety it is but tall fescue is very common in this area.

We are planning to get 3 Nigerian Dwarf doelings this spring. These are our first goats. They will be pets but we also plan to use them for dairy. My plan was (is?) to fence in an area that is roughly 3,000 sq ft (48x64). This area would have some wooden spools, shade shelters, the goat shed, etc. The area we are fencing is the area with the unknown grass but let's pretend it is tall fescue since it is common here. If the goats are fed a horse quality hay, is it okay to house them on tall fescue? Is having the goats in this size pen going to create management problems from a parasite perspective?

Longer term, I am working on eradicating the foxtail from my other 2 acres and planting....something. Probably a rye/kentucky bluegrass/fine fescue mix. Maybe with some clover. Something that would give us some more options in a year or two.

If I'm feeding them a quality hay (probably brome and alfalfa), is it okay to house them as I'm describing? Is tall fescue an issue in this scenario if that's what I have? Am I setting myself up for a parasite problem by not doing rotational grazing if I'm feeding hay?

Thanks

For starters, don't fertilize all your pasture right away. You're stimulating more spring growth than your cows can eat, so only fertilize half or three-quarters of your pasture now. Be sure, though, that the unfertilized area is fenced off from the rest of the pasture.