NEW KIDS WITH CROOKED FRONT LEG/FEET

[frustratedearthmother]

Yes- polled is a goat that never grows horns.

I have no other ideas for your doe that doesn’t cycle. Could be she’s one that’s a secret cycler- however the buck would know.

Maybe someone else has an idea.

 

[Alaskan]

Always possible to have a goat that "isn't right".

Why she isn't cycling or getting pregnant though.... no idea.

Possible causes can also be that she is low in minerals/nutrients or has a high worm load.

Check them all for anemia. See if their gums are nice and pink. I think it is more accurate to check the inner eyelid... but gums are easier.

 

[Legamin]

Our Nubian/Nigerian dwarf doe gave birth to twins last night, but there's a problem. The front feet on the buck kid are crooked and one foot on the doe kid is crooked. This is our first experience with kidding. The "defects" are not serious and the kids do all that a normal kid would do. Rickets? Vitamin deficiency?

To make matters worse we are financially strapped; not an extra dollar in the house-a bleak time. Is there something we can do to help their lower legs/feet? There is no possibility of a vet visit.
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The back legs seem fine. I will try to post better pictures of the lower legs if needed. The areas effected are just above the hooves; slightly bent out or inward on the front legs.

First your observations: Is the kid limping when it walks? Can it walk? Does it make noise when it steps on the effected leg? You’re looking for injury or pain through basic observation BEFORE making a physical exam.
Now….You need to be a little bold here. Grasp the leg that is SOUND and gently but firmly manipulate the joints and see how the kid reacts…how it responds by either retracting or extending the leg with or against the movement you are creating. Do this several times and try to sense a ‘normal’ reaction. Now move to the questionable leg and VERY GENTLY do the same. Do NOT be extreme in the movement and try to watch the eyes and breathing speed of the kid with each small degree of movement. You are looking to see if there is increased breathing rate or squinting of the eyes, twitching of the tail or other limbs…even ears, shaking or ’verbal’ cues. A veterinary exam is called just that (even in humans) when the patient cannot describe their pain and symptoms in words that you can understand. So YOU have to make all the assumptions. Twitching, shaking, sudden retraction (pulling away), severe squinting of the eye(s) or twitching ears or an oral ‘urgent’ sound is an indication there is pain. If there is ANY movement at the point of deformation (that is not a normal joint movement with limits) STOP! do NOT go further than to assess that there IS, in fact, some abnormal movement. It this is the case the leg was possibly broken or a new soft bone bent during birth and there is a little you CAN DO! if you suspect a break, CALL your regular vet and explain you cannot bring the animal in (they don’t need too much detail) and ask if they can just offer advice. MOST vets are really great this way and understand that good and caring and responsible animal owners have hard times on occasion and will offer limited advice…as long as you don’t abuse the priviledge….
if you suspect a break find a piece of cardboard that is light but stiff. Form it so that it makes a triangle that fits around the length of the leg from below the shoulder to above the hoof. Tape it in place so that it makes contact on all three sides, keeping the leg straight, but does not bind against the skin around the joints tightly…you don’t want to cause sores from rubbing that can get infected! If you have some clean cloth (good) or gauze binding (better) prewrap the leg BEFORE putting the splint on…this will give padding to any delicate points of contact. Make sure there are no sharp edges on the cardboard. Once the cardboard is in place attach a cloth strap rom the splint (tape it securely to the top) to over the shoulders and loosely tied around the top of the opposite leg to help keep the splint from being easily kicked off. If you can keep the kid quiet for a few days that is best…if it is nursing…it needs to keep nursing so just do your best to keep an eye on it.
slight bends are not unusual in kids. ’knock-kneed’ kids or those with outward pointing hooves are not necessarily injured or deformed. The bones of newborns are very ‘plastic’ and can bend and stay bend when stressed during an unusual birth. So you need to run your hands gently up and down the unaffected leg several times getting a clear idea of the musculoskeletal anatomy of the leg that appears normal. Take your time! Go to the effected leg and make an identical examination of the anatomy. If there are no gross differences, if there is not abnormal boney movements, no obvious observable expression of pain or limping…you have a kid with a leg that is different. The best thing to do is nothing except observe carefully and do frequent…daily examinations for a few weeks to ensure that the problem was not missed and possibly worsening. There are deformities that occur especially in close line breeding over several generations and there are the ‘one offs’ that just show up. If it turns out to be a long term problem feed it well, grow it out as best you can and advertise it prior to an upcoming ethnic holiday which might be celebrated in your area. Kid meat is highly desirable and you might realize enough of a profit that you can buy another goat or meet other pressing needs. If you are part of a local church you might ask for assistance in caring for your family (first) and your animals until you are able to get on your financial feet. As a disabled vet myself I understand circumstances that put you off balance and in the wind for sometimes years while others make decisions that effect your life. It is hard and there is often no short cut through it. A solid local church is best equipped for just such short term needs. God bless y’all and I hope this is helpful. If I can offer any other advice feel free to pm me.

 

[danetschool]

First your observations: Is the kid limping when it walks? No. Can it walk? Yes. Does it make noise when it steps on the effected leg? No.You’re looking for injury or pain through basic observation BEFORE making a physical exam.
Now….You need to be a little bold here. Grasp the leg that is SOUND and gently but firmly manipulate the joints and see how the kid reacts…how it responds by either retracting or extending the leg with or against the movement you are creating. Do this several times and try to sense a ‘normal’ reaction. We have done so and it causes discomfort in the kid. Now move to the questionable leg and VERY GENTLY do the same. Do NOT be extreme in the movement and try to watch the eyes and breathing speed of the kid with each small degree of movement. You are looking to see if there is increased breathing rate or squinting of the eyes, twitching of the tail or other limbs…even ears, shaking or ’verbal’ cues. A veterinary exam is called just that (even in humans) when the patient cannot describe their pain and symptoms in words that you can understand. So YOU have to make all the assumptions. Twitching, shaking, sudden retraction (pulling away), severe squinting of the eye(s) or twitching ears or an oral ‘urgent’ sound is an indication there is pain. If there is ANY movement at the point of deformation (that is not a normal joint movement with limits) STOP! do NOT go further than to assess that there IS, in fact, some abnormal movement. It this is the case the leg was possibly broken or a new soft bone bent during birth and there is a little you CAN DO! if you suspect a break, CALL your regular vet and explain you cannot bring the animal in (they don’t need too much detail) and ask if they can just offer advice. MOST vets are really great this way and understand that good and caring and responsible animal owners have hard times on occasion and will offer limited advice…as long as you don’t abuse the priviledge….
if you suspect a break find a piece of cardboard that is light but stiff. Form it so that it makes a triangle that fits around the length of the leg from below the shoulder to above the hoof. Tape it in place so that it makes contact on all three sides, keeping the leg straight, but does not bind against the skin around the joints tightly…you don’t want to cause sores from rubbing that can get infected! If you have some clean cloth (good) or gauze binding (better) prewrap the leg BEFORE putting the splint on…this will give padding to any delicate points of contact. Make sure there are no sharp edges on the cardboard. Once the cardboard is in place attach a cloth strap rom the splint (tape it securely to the top) to over the shoulders and loosely tied around the top of the opposite leg to help keep the splint from being easily kicked off. If you can keep the kid quiet for a few days that is best…if it is nursing…it needs to keep nursing so just do your best to keep an eye on it.
slight bends are not unusual in kids. ’knock-kneed’ kids or those with outward pointing hooves are not necessarily injured or deformed. The bones of newborns are very ‘plastic’ and can bend and stay bend when stressed during an unusual birth. So you need to run your hands gently up and down the unaffected leg several times getting a clear idea of the musculoskeletal anatomy of the leg that appears normal. Take your time! Go to the effected leg and make an identical examination of the anatomy. If there are no gross differences, if there is not abnormal boney movements, no obvious observable expression of pain or limping…you have a kid with a leg that is different. The best thing to do is nothing except observe carefully and do frequent…daily examinations for a few weeks to ensure that the problem was not missed and possibly worsening. There are deformities that occur especially in close line breeding over several generations and there are the ‘one offs’ that just show up. If it turns out to be a long term problem feed it well, grow it out as best you can and advertise it prior to an upcoming ethnic holiday which might be celebrated in your area. Kid meat is highly desirable and you might realize enough of a profit that you can buy another goat or meet other pressing needs. If you are part of a local church you might ask for assistance in caring for your family (first) and your animals until you are able to get on your financial feet. As a disabled vet myself I understand circumstances that put you off balance and in the wind for sometimes years while others make decisions that effect your life. It is hard and there is often no short cut through it. A solid local church is best equipped for just such short term needs. God bless y’all and I hope this is helpful. If I can offer any other advice feel free to pm me. Thank you for the insightful reply. Yesterday, the little doe kid, the one I thought the worse off, no longer had a bend in her leg and looked normal. The buck kid also looked improved. From what I see their problems are disappearing giving us two robust, heathy kids. Again, thank you, your reply will be useful to me in determining if a goat is in pain in the future. I plan on saving your post to my desk top.

 

[danetschool]

Always possible to have a goat that "isn't right".

Why she isn't cycling or getting pregnant though.... no idea.

Possible causes can also be that she is low in minerals/nutrients or has a high worm load.

I have been neglectful in providing minerals in a timely manner. I've already come to the conclusion that this may be why she isn't cycling. They have been wormed on a regular basis.

Check them all for anemia. See if their gums are nice and pink. I think it is more accurate to check the inner eyelid... but gums are easier.

I will do this as soon as the sun comes up. Thank you.

 

[Legamin]

Sounds like the soft newborn bones got a bit bent during kidding and are straightening. Even if the they don’t fully straighten it is not likely to cause pain once the bones harden fully. The best you can do is continue to watch for signs of discomfort. With sheep we have frequent lambing intrevelations…especially in the meat flock that is bred for carcass size. Sometimes if the ewe is in trouble there is no choice but to help and occasionally that help can stress joints or leg bones…rarely…worse. If this were my animal I would watch for normal development and freedom from discomfort. If it meets the genetic standard of the breed it is probably safe to re-breed to the next line. As we have changed focus from goats to rare breed sheep the last of our goats ended up in the freezer. I miss the nutty personalities of the goats! What I don’t miss is the constant fence repairs and finding the same old goat at the back door after jumping yet another point in the 5’ tall welded panel fence or squeezed through the gate so that it could rub on the back door and beg for loves and pets and a neck rub down….They are the most wonderful characters! Just not that profitable. As I have gotten older the sheep are more predictable and constant and require less intensive interaction. Now I just worry about whether I have kept up with all my chores…they seem to do the rest!
Best of luck, again, probably no big deal with the leg…just smother it in loves and pets!
PS. If you have a close friend that is also raising goats you might try to work out a trade for vaccinations, minerals, and any needed antibiotic shots…general health maintenance stuff. I have chopped wood, done basic tune-ups, vacuumed carpets and shoveled poop in barter. I have eaten fried grasshoppers, worms and drank melted snow for a few seasons. Occasionally you will find something around your property that someone else needs and can make a solid exchange. I have a brother that sells parts off of his ‘antique’ autos that liter his property at EBay auction and keeps body and soul together. Sometimes life forces us to be creative. As the psalmist said in Psalms 37:25 “I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread.” I’ll be praying for you.

 

[Legamin]

I have been neglectful in providing minerals in a timely manner. I've already come to the conclusion that this may be why she isn't cycling. They have been wormed on a regular basis.

I will do this as soon as the sun comes up. Thank you.

Good thought. I was thinking more to the immediate common physicality issues that are frequent…and anemia is often one of those less obvious…yet frequent things! Good catch! In the medical and science field our saying was to “Look for horses…NOT zebras” when diagnosing a problem.

 

[Mini Horses]

There is always the possibility of cysts on ovaries, preventing cycling and/or egg drop. If she's healthy otherwise, you just accept it. When you get an opportunity to mineralize, she may come around. While a vet might be able to intervene, at this point it seems to be await and see issue. By the way, you might give her some of the selenium paste maybe once or twice a week for a month and see if that changes anything.

I'm of the opinion that the kids will straighten those legs with activity. I've had mini horses born with similar issues and they came around just fine in a couple weeks of use! Let us know how it goes -- we care.

 

[danetschool]

Sounds like the soft newborn bones got a bit bent during kidding and are straightening. Even if the they don’t fully straighten it is not likely to cause pain once the bones harden fully. The best you can do is continue to watch for signs of discomfort. With sheep we have frequent lambing intrevelations…especially in the meat flock that is bred for carcass size. Sometimes if the ewe is in trouble there is no choice but to help and occasionally that help can stress joints or leg bones…rarely…worse. If this were my animal I would watch for normal development and freedom from discomfort. If it meets the genetic standard of the breed it is probably safe to re-breed to the next line. As we have changed focus from goats to rare breed sheep the last of our goats ended up in the freezer. I miss the nutty personalities of the goats! What I don’t miss is the constant fence repairs and finding the same old goat at the back door after jumping yet another point in the 5’ tall welded panel fence or squeezed through the gate so that it could rub on the back door and beg for loves and pets and a neck rub down….They are the most wonderful characters! Just not that profitable. As I have gotten older the sheep are more predictable and constant and require less intensive interaction. Now I just worry about whether I have kept up with all my chores…they seem to do the rest!
Best of luck, again, probably no big deal with the leg…just smother it in loves and pets!
PS. If you have a close friend that is also raising goats you might try to work out a trade for vaccinations, minerals, and any needed antibiotic shots…general health maintenance stuff. I have chopped wood, done basic tune-ups, vacuumed carpets and shoveled poop in barter. I have eaten fried grasshoppers, worms and drank melted snow for a few seasons. Occasionally you will find something around your property that someone else needs and can make a solid exchange. I have a brother that sells parts off of his ‘antique’ autos that liter his property at EBay auction and keeps body and soul together. Sometimes life forces us to be creative. As the psalmist said in Psalms 37:25 “I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread.” I’ll be praying for you.

It looks like this is exactly what the problem was. The leg/feet look quite normal now and the kids are well able to keep up with Mom as she tours the backyard. What fun to watch the kids gambol and play; such a hoot! I am much relieved that the leg issue resolved itself and the kids are hardy and healthy. Thank you.

 

[danetschool]

Thanks to all for your posts and assistance.