Nubian Buck Dying,... (Was lost, rest of herd?)

[frustratedearthmother]

I'm just throwing this out there.... Yes - Coccidia is devastating and yes it can do horrible things to your herd. But...it does seem a little odd to me that you had does aborting, kids born weak, and more than one grown animal dying all in a relatively short time span. I would be questioning if it is "just" coccidia. I really wish there were a more thorough investigation for you and your herds sake.

You said you wormed in December and later you lost a pregnant doe and another aborted. There are wormers that are not safe for pregnant does -but I wouldn't think they would kill the doe either.

I know I'm projecting my own fears and concerns here - but I would not be totally satisfied with a coccidia diagnosis.

So sorry you had to go through this heart-breaking experience.

 

[babsbag]

I am very sorry you lost him, that is heartbreaking.

I too would be questioning that diagnosis of just coccidia. Coccidia isn't usually a killer of adult animals, not say it can't, but not common. And it usually (again, not always) accompanied by scours. If you lost that little buckling from coccidia I am certain he would have had signs of it before dying.

I think you had/have a necropsy done. I hope they are checking for Johne's, mycoplasma, selenium deficiency, and other mineral levels. Those would be at the top of my list, with Johne's being first. And I sincerely hope that it is anything but that.

Hoping and praying for your remaining herd.

 

[babsbag]

They are a spore forming parasite naturally found within the gut flora at low levels. Their existence is persistent in the gut much like most humans carry staph on their skin almost all their lives. It becomes a problem when the body is out of balance, thus part of the gut flora system that regulates health.

Regardless of my use of the exact definitions, treat the gut you treat the animal, that's a universal thing, throughout all animal life. It was merely a suggestion, as it's something that I have saved animals from in the past. I usually mix oregano oil into a container to ward off any secondary onslaught to the immune system.

All the best.

I just reread my post...I sounded a little harsh...sorry. Every herd owner can treat as they see fit and other ideas never hurt. I have used natural remedies for things myself, but cocci can do so much damage so quickly that I think that personally I would always take the traditional approach for treatment. I even go so far as to do preventative treatments with kids. It is easy to prevent, and a bear to treat if you have a lot of kids on the ground.

Again, I apologize if I sounded like I was criticizing, that wasn't my intent, and I guess that technically you are correct, they are always there.

But a serious question for you...why do you think that it targets kids and usually other young animals? Does the animal just learn to live with it as they develop?

 

[Sweetened]

Hi Babs! My apologies as well if my counter came off brash. I wasn't suggesting they avoid the conventional treatment, Probiotics will not interrupt or interfere with those treatments, only assist them. It can be the little kick they need for the conventional treatment to take off.

I think Cocci effects young animals for the same reason a dog with a compromised immune system can end up with Parvo later in life. Cocci is an opportunistic predator, like viruses and other parasites. A good analogy would very much be something like... If you have calves in a herd of cows (beneficial gut flora), when coyotes (cocci) are near, the calves stay steady in the middle of the herd and most times, the pack will move through the area to pick at something else. However the more cows you remove, the less protected the calf becomes. One or two cows remain to protect several calves, and suddenly the coyotes are picking things off, weakening the herd before finally taking over the area. If other cattle were to move in (or be moved in like probiotics), the coyotes would once again back off.

I have brought back chicks from the brink of death (who could not walk), by force feeding small syringe of probiotic yogurt mixed with oregano oil. The Oregano oil fights secondary infections (and is also antiparasitic) and the yogurt helps the gut to restore balance, thus putting a pounding on the overproduction of cocci. Aloe Vera Juice is a sytem flush, however it's one that provides nutrients and leaves beneficial flora in tact. It forces the bowels to clean the lining, removing whatever contaminants are in the gut wall preventing the uptake of nutrition.

I have had great success treating cocci with probitic methods, moreso than using medication or medicated feeds.

Sorry if I inadvertently highjacked the thread.

 

[20kidsonhill]

Amprolium is Corid.

 

[20kidsonhill]

I heard more than one farm this year had problems with coccidiosis in their adults. We are all too familiar with it and we do treat, mostly in spring and summer on a regular basis for it. It is manageable, but annoying to say the least.

 

[babsbag]

I heard more than one farm this year had problems with coccidiosis in their adults. We are all too familiar with it and we do treat, mostly in spring and summer on a regular basis for it. It is manageable, but annoying to say the least.

Do you see symptoms in the adults or just treat as a matter of course?

I use sulfadimethoxine 40% for both prevention and treatment. I don't have to give them much and I like that. The summers here are very hot and dry, I think that helps a lot with control.

 

[20kidsonhill]

If I feel the adults, especially 2 and 3 year olds are looking flimsy I will treat them extra, but for the most part we run the corid(Amprolium) in the water on a fairly regular basis in spring and summer. But I have seen adults for sure get thin or scour and respond to being treated with corid only.

To restate, Corid is Amprolium. Corid is the brand name and Amprolium is the active ingredients.
I have also used Sulfa dimethoxine, I was not getting as good of results with it, and when I asked the vet he explained that the rumen eats up the sulfa andit makes it less useful compared to Corid, except for in young kids that are not ruminanting yet.

We also use Rumensin in our feed.

 

[20kidsonhill]

I should say for the most part it is the kids we are treating and young adults, and since we put the medication in the water, they all get treated.

 

[babsbag]

Now you have me wondering about a doe I have. She just freshened with twins a month ago and no matter how much hay or grain I give her she is losing weight. I did worm her but now I am going to have a fecal done on her. I use auto waterers so not sure how I would treat the water. I guess that you don't worry about Corid and thiamine?