Nutrition and condition discussion

[freemotion]

If anyone cares, I'm posting updates on Jenny here:
http://bodowaygoats.blogspot.com/

I'm not posting here anymore. Just not worth it.

That is sad. So many here were truly trying to help you with your goat. I'm very sorry you didn't see that. I hope that with showing, you develop your eye....I worked with horses for decades and it does take time to develop an eye for what is thin, what is racing fit, what is working fit, and what is show ring fit. And what is fat.

Wishing you lots of success in your journey with goats. They truly are wonderful.

 

[TheMixedBag]

I get that some people were trying to help, but it's how they were trying to help that I can't do. I'm not going to be able to do the things everyone wants me to do, and getting irritated because I don't do everything someone suggests doesn't help, so I'm just done here. I'm always going to be told she's thin and that my ideal weight for a goat is too thin, so I guess now is the time to deal with it and move on.
(no I'm not saying she's in good condition, that's obvious)

 

[SDGsoap&dairy]

If anyone cares, I'm posting updates on Jenny here:
http://bodowaygoats.blogspot.com/

I'm not posting here anymore. Just not worth it.

So many here were truly trying to help you with your goat. I'm very sorry you didn't see that. I hope that with showing, you develop your eye....

Wishing you lots of success in your journey with goats. They truly are wonderful.

x2

 

[20kidsonhill]

Im not sure what you mean, do you mean a special feeder only for her filled with protein?

I can do that if thats what you mean

No they actually make protein tubs you buy in the store to put out with livestock, the newest thing is goat protein tubs, they come in a black tub like container, you buy them at the feed store, Our Farm choice carries them.
Like this:
http://www.feedinadrum.com/GOAT20N.html
http://www.hubbardfeeds.com/specialty/ProdInfo/Easylix16GoatBlock.aspx?menu=Goats

This is a block:
http://www.hubbardfeeds.com/specialty/ProdInfo/Easylix16GoatBlock.aspx?menu=Goats


I will be adding something like this to this summers feeding program when my does are only on pasture.

I am still researching the brand that I will choose.

Can't be a cattle tub, because of Urea used in them. Urea is toxic to goats.

I realize what your saying now, your talking about goat minerals.
We only have 2 goats if I had a whole herd I would get the tub too, I get the loose mineral for goats in a 25 lb bag and it is out where they can get it when ever they please, we refresh it daily I only put a small amount in a bowl that hangs on the side of their fence or inside their housing area.

Nope it isn't just goat minerals, it is a PROTEIN tub to supplement pasture. may or may not have minerals in it, depending on which one you buy. loose minerals don't have any protein in them.

Cattle use protein tubs all the time, but goats can't have cattle protein tubs because most of them, or all of them contain urea, and goats can NOT have urea. But now some feed companies are producing goat protein tubs and they are becoming very popular in our area.

 

[PJisaMom]

No they actually make protein tubs you buy in the store to put out with livestock, the newest thing is goat protein tubs, they come in a black tub like container, you buy them at the feed store, Our Farm choice carries them.
Like this:
http://www.feedinadrum.com/GOAT20N.html
http://www.hubbardfeeds.com/specialty/ProdInfo/Easylix16GoatBlock.aspx?menu=Goats

This is a block:
http://www.hubbardfeeds.com/specialty/ProdInfo/Easylix16GoatBlock.aspx?menu=Goats


I will be adding something like this to this summers feeding program when my does are only on pasture.

I am still researching the brand that I will choose.

Can't be a cattle tub, because of Urea used in them. Urea is toxic to goats.

I realize what your saying now, your talking about goat minerals.
We only have 2 goats if I had a whole herd I would get the tub too, I get the loose mineral for goats in a 25 lb bag and it is out where they can get it when ever they please, we refresh it daily I only put a small amount in a bowl that hangs on the side of their fence or inside their housing area.

Nope it isn't just goat minerals, it is a PROTEIN tub to supplement pasture. may or may not have minerals in it, depending on which one you buy. loose minerals don't have any protein in them.

Cattle use protein tubs all the time, but goats can't have cattle protein tubs because most of them, or all of them contain urea, and goats can NOT have urea. But now some feed companies are producing goat protein tubs and they are becoming very popular in our area.

I saw the EnergiLass Goat tubs from Kent at our Farm and Home store today...

EnergiLass Goat

http://www.kentfeeds.com/products/sheepgoat/supp/sg-Supp.php

EnergiLass Goat is a specially processed and cured molasses-based supplement formulated for goats. It is available in a 331⁄3 lb. pail.

Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein, min 18.0%
This includes not more than 1.8% equivalent crude protein from non-protein nitrogen. (NPN from Ammonium Chloride)

Crude Fat, min 5.0%
Crude Fiber, max 2.0%
Calcium (Ca), min 1.4% (In my mineral : 13-15%)
Calcium (Ca), max 1.9%
Phosphorus (P), min 0.6% (mine: min 8%)
Magnesium (Mg), min 0.5% (mine; min 2%)
Potassium (K), min 3.0% (mine: min 1%)
Copper (Cu), min 55 ppm (mine: 2500 ppm)
Copper (Cu), min 65 ppm
Manganese (Mn), min 1200 ppm
Selenium (Se), min 4.0 ppm (Mine: min 26ppm)
Zinc (Zn), min 1200 ppm (mine: min 5000ppm)
Vitamin A, min 100,000 IU/lb (mine: same)
Vitamin D3, min 10,000 IU/lb (mine: same)
Vitamin E, min 400 IU/lb (mine: min 100 IU/lb)

Compared to the nutritional analysis from my free choice minerals (Cargill Right Now Onyx), I am seeing better numbers from the mineral.

Would it make them eat less of the mineral if they were offered the tub in conjunction with the mineral... and I would think the goaties would love the molasses based tub, but consume less of what they need that way.... ?

Thinking out loud!

 

[helmstead]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't tubbed minerals, etc...compressed??

We've already established that goats physically cannot get what they need from a block. (and I don't think any animal REALLY can lick THAT much) Loose minerals are superior because they're easy for an animal to consume.

So, between the nutritional info PJisaMom just posted, and the idea that compressed minerals are best used as stepping stones - I think I would automatically stick with loose minerals.

 

[20kidsonhill]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't tubbed minerals, etc...compressed??

We've already established that goats physically cannot get what they need from a block. (and I don't think any animal REALLY can lick THAT much) Loose minerals are superior because they're easy for an animal to consume.

So, between the nutritional info PJisaMom just posted, and the idea that compressed minerals are best used as stepping stones - I think I would automatically stick with loose minerals.

These tubs are all the rage around by us. All the feed stores are now carrying them and I have heard really good things about them for goats and sheep on pasture. Because of our mountains we have alot of livestock just on pasture.

They don't lick on them, it is more like they bite on them, not for minerals so much as increased protein with the added benifits of a few minerals, you would still have to have out loose minerals.

 

[20kidsonhill]

I realize what your saying now, your talking about goat minerals.
We only have 2 goats if I had a whole herd I would get the tub too, I get the loose mineral for goats in a 25 lb bag and it is out where they can get it when ever they please, we refresh it daily I only put a small amount in a bowl that hangs on the side of their fence or inside their housing area.

Nope it isn't just goat minerals, it is a PROTEIN tub to supplement pasture. may or may not have minerals in it, depending on which one you buy. loose minerals don't have any protein in them.

Cattle use protein tubs all the time, but goats can't have cattle protein tubs because most of them, or all of them contain urea, and goats can NOT have urea. But now some feed companies are producing goat protein tubs and they are becoming very popular in our area.

I saw the EnergiLass Goat tubs from Kent at our Farm and Home store today...

EnergiLass Goat

http://www.kentfeeds.com/products/sheepgoat/supp/sg-Supp.php

EnergiLass Goat is a specially processed and cured molasses-based supplement formulated for goats. It is available in a 331⁄3 lb. pail.

Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein, min 18.0%
This includes not more than 1.8% equivalent crude protein from non-protein nitrogen. (NPN from Ammonium Chloride)

Crude Fat, min 5.0%
Crude Fiber, max 2.0%
Calcium (Ca), min 1.4% (In my mineral : 13-15%)
Calcium (Ca), max 1.9%
Phosphorus (P), min 0.6% (mine: min 8%)
Magnesium (Mg), min 0.5% (mine; min 2%)
Potassium (K), min 3.0% (mine: min 1%)
Copper (Cu), min 55 ppm (mine: 2500 ppm)
Copper (Cu), min 65 ppm
Manganese (Mn), min 1200 ppm
Selenium (Se), min 4.0 ppm (Mine: min 26ppm)
Zinc (Zn), min 1200 ppm (mine: min 5000ppm)
Vitamin A, min 100,000 IU/lb (mine: same)
Vitamin D3, min 10,000 IU/lb (mine: same)
Vitamin E, min 400 IU/lb (mine: min 100 IU/lb)

Compared to the nutritional analysis from my free choice minerals (Cargill Right Now Onyx), I am seeing better numbers from the mineral.

Would it make them eat less of the mineral if they were offered the tub in conjunction with the mineral... and I would think the goaties would love the molasses based tub, but consume less of what they need that way.... ?

Thinking out loud!

I am looking for the salt in the tub you have, salt is what regulates mineral intake, did you over look writting it down, or is there no salt?

Am I reading that correct, does it say it contains ammonia Chloride?

does it list any ferrous oxide or iron oxide on the label. as ingredience?

And is the copper a copper oxide or copper sulfate.?

Sulfates are better than oxides, better absorption.



I was thinking of trying the cargill Onyx, I don't think it would slow down the consumption of the mineral too much, especially if their is no salt in the tub.

 

[Melissa'sDreamFarm]

If I leave my loose goat minerals out "free choice" they eat it like candy. So just how much does one goat need to consume in a day. I'm afraid to fill it regularly, but if I know about how much they should consume in a day, I can average it out. I've been just sprinkling it in their Purina Goat Chow, which they absolutely LOVE!!!!

I've noticed since I switched to the goat chow from the sweet feed my goats coats/fur sure looks nice and their body condition looks better. I will never trust anyone selling feed to give me what I SAID I wanted. Read all labels and nutritional values if the label isn't clear.

 

[20kidsonhill]

If I leave my loose goat minerals out "free choice" they eat it like candy. So just how much does one goat need to consume in a day. I'm afraid to fill it regularly, but if I know about how much they should consume in a day, I can average it out. I've been just sprinkling it in their Purina Goat Chow, which they absolutely LOVE!!!!

I've noticed since I switched to the goat chow from the sweet feed my goats coats/fur sure looks nice and their body condition looks better. I will never trust anyone selling feed to give me what I SAID I wanted. Read all labels and nutritional values if the label isn't clear.

Sweet feed isn't very good for goats, sounds like you learned that lesson the hard way. And I don't think they would over-dose on loose minerals being left out all the time. ONe reason yours are eating it like crazy, is because it isn't out all the time. They slow down on consumption after a few days and start to regulate the amount they eat. Plus keep in mind a goat milking or gestating would have a higher mineral requiement. They are more likely to over-dose on it by adding it to the feed, if you add too much on a regular basis.