Ohiogoatgirl's Escapades & Adventures- Pulse check! pg14

[ohiogoatgirl]

Thanks! I sent you an email

They are so teeny! Of the four ewe lambs, three are at/nearly 40# and poor little 'tiny kat' is barely 20#! The guy thinks she had cocci but non-clinical and among everything he was dealing with this year she just is a bit stunted. I am trying to feed them up though. There was some soft poops but I'm trying to keep a close eye on them to get them growing without making them gluttons.

I am not sure when I'll be around at MD S&W. My friends are volunteering with a dinner setup.
Will you be going to Great Lakes in Wooster? I'll be there the whole weekend I know I saw your fleece there before but missed you.

 

[ohiogoatgirl]

I've been throwing around a lot of ideas and I think I've come to a conclusion.

This spring I will try to take a lot of notes on weights and health. I'm hoping to cobble up Christmas money and buy flock filer so that I can do that better and be able to look at it more subjectively. This year I had taken notes on weights but the notepad was left in the barn and got knocked down and wet... So I lost the weights I'd recorded, except for birth weights which I'd noted in my IG posts during lambing. But I didn't have things setup to take weaning weights and it wasn't about to happen with a lamb sling.

All this to say I'm hoping to keep only a couple ewes if any and they will have to really be the best ones. The rest I will put up for sale and those that aren't spoken for by weaning will be taken to the auction. It'll be a test run for me as I've never taken any kind of large number of animals (more than 10) to an auction and definitely the first that will be as meat animals.

From the sales $ I will invest in a BFL ram.
So next fall the shetland ram I just got, will get the young shetland ewes and more slight shetland ewes. Depending on size, possibly the smaller of my crossbred ewes. Then the BFL ram would get the rest of the ewes.

The shetlands I have someone that is interested in any pure shetlands I'd be selling. I'll probably end up keeping a handful of pure shetlands for the foreseeable future, unless things change dramatically.

The BFL cross lambs I'll be tracking and making notes on. Hopefully nice and tidy with the flock filer program. Then come weaning time I will evaluate. Who is already not making the cut. More notes and weights. When I would be taking them to the sale I'll evaluate again and see who passed the first but is slacking behind. I don't have any idea of numbers to how many I'd keep, just that I want to make sure and really evaluate who has proven to fit my goals. And trying to keep in mind that I may well sell off some of what are now my ewe lambs I'd kept back.

This will give me some BFL crosses to get moving towards my goals. From the sales of the meat lambs and culled ewes I will invest in a few Corriedale ewes.

From here I should have a lot more of the traits that I want and need. I can use the BFL a few years and see what crossing is working best. I've been haunting the BFL and corriedale fb groups and asked in one of the fiber artists groups for thoughts on the fiber of these crosses.
I have made a lot of notes of possible breeding schemes and crosses. I think as long as I can stick to my notes and weights etc and evaluate them then this will bring me much closer to my goals.

 

[Latestarter]

Hope it all works out for you. Sounds like a lot of work, but you should get some interesting outcomes.

 

[ohiogoatgirl]

After a lot more internet hunting I think I've decided on a tentative plan of action.

*I will only keep a couple ewes the prove to grow really really great and have great wool
*Decide from among the current ewes if anyone really does not make the cut
*Feed up the lambs, take to auction as meat lambs
*With $ from lambs sales buy BFL ram
*2019 breeding use shetland ram on 5 shetland ewes and 3 of my smallest cross ewes (unless they put on a big growth spurt or I take them to auction). Use BFL ram on 5 shetland ewes, 4 cross ewes, 2 mutt ewes, 2 shet/b.cheviot ewes.
*Sell pure shetland lambs
*BFL/shet mules keep best ewes. Expecting great offspring from shet/b.cheviot ewes and pigpig. Since my cross lambs now are big as/bigger than the shetlands I'd expect the mule cross to be better that from the pure shetlands.
*Keep only the best of the ewe lambs! The remaining sell at auction as meat lambs.
*With $ from lambs sales buy a few corriedale ewes
*2020 breeding shetland on shetlands, BFL on rest.

I've already been doodling some ideas of what crossing and back crossing.

 

[ohiogoatgirl]

I must have been more loopy that I thought while I was ill Monday... I did not realize I repeated myself entirely

Anyyyyways...
I was reading and it was mentioned about dosing ewes with Corid before lambing for cocci prevention in the lambs. I did a quick search but didn't find anything helpful about that.

so here is all my current notes going forward...
2019
-email cunningham about shearing, going for late Feb-early march.

-considering putting late group in for late lambing and fall/winter meat lamb auction. However I want Pigpig and shetland ewes ready for fall breeding. If bunch of the ewe lambs are not bred they could be put in late group? They'd lamb mid-late july. wean late sept. lambs 5mo/old december market. Ewe lambs would be 16mo at lambing. Can cull as needed with market lambs. Then leave them with lambs seperate from breeding. Be ready for Oct breeding 2020 with plenty of recovery time.
3/1/19-3/20/19 groups, due 7/25/2019-8/14/19, market- nov 5mo, dec 6mo

-dosing ewes with Corid for cocci prevention in lambs???

-Only consideration for keeper ewe lambs would be from- pigpig, 184, 185, mary, jane- IF they are really great looking.

-Eric: 4-5 ewes and 1 rams (I owe him a wether)- interest in Bingley, Sir william, Caroline, Lydia (if decided to cull)? Setup day for him to come after weaning.

-Lambs to Mt Hope in Sept? preferably before breeding groups in Oct.

***Need buy list with lamb sales $-
#1 priority- BFL ram, CIDRs & stuff, large weigh sling (P1 $17), coats, wool to mill?
#2 priority- iodine spray (p1 5.60), prolapse harness & spoon (p1 22.50),
#3 priority- design optimal size panels for jugs & chute use, design 2-way sort gate (p1 172) and guillotine gate (p1 229) and see what denny would want for fabrication?

-Rams as far away from ewes as possible by mid august.
CIDRs in Oct 4
CIDRs out Oct 15 & groups together
(BFL will be big group, pull 4 a day to not over-do the ram)
Nov 6 seperate breeding groups
Due March 10- April 1
(If lambing done tight group early on, lambs will be 3 months mid June & 6 months mid Sept.)

 

[Latestarter]

-Rams as far away from ewes as possible by mid august.

I thought that would be sufficient for my March born kids... I would suggest that mid-late July would prove a better time frame for this. Just sayin'

 

[ohiogoatgirl]

I thought that would be sufficient for my March born kids... I would suggest that mid-late July would prove a better time frame for this. Just sayin'

Lol ya they like to change our plans don't they.
I am going to have the rams separated already. They are only together during breeding groups. But I'm hoping that the new paddocks will be ready by then. So that I can work my rotation that the rams will be plenty out of sight. I'm planning to use CIDRs and based on some info for people trying to induce cycle out-of-season I was hoping that by having them more removed, the ewes will be easier to synchronize that way. right now all paddocks share at least a section of fence. So they are separated but can still hang out together about 5ft apart.

 

[ohiogoatgirl]

2019 lambing-
150% would be 27 lambs. My estimate is 23 lambs if all 18 ewes are bred.
Only consideration for keeper ewe lambs would be from- pigpig, 184, 185, mary, jane- IF they are really great looking. All others to be sold.

2019 breeding-
Shetland ram: Minnie pearl (white shetland), 4 young shetland ewes
BFL ram: pigpig, mary, 184, 185, jane, lizzy, kitty, lydia, 3 br katmoget shetland, 2 blk katmoget shetland, ayr, caroline, midget
*ewes listed in order of who I'd most like to keep ewe lambs from.
*also noting I may cull caroline and midget before this time.
*Ayr is on the watch list since her mom prolapsed but crossing my fingers for her. She is nice and solid so if nothing else I'd like to keep her around for meat lambs.

2020 lambing-
21 ewes x 150% lambing would be 31 lambs. My estimate is 36 lambs. I'll definitely be culling for mothering ability and twinning rate by this time.
I'll be noting the best looking lambs from the best moms. I'll need to be critical because depending on how many ewe lambs I keep back and how many adult ewes I cull will be deciding in how many Corriedale ewes I will bring in after selling the remaining lambs. I need to remind myself that keeping ewes that are so-so is not going to get me what I want across the flock.

2020 breeding-
Shetland ram: shetland ewes (how many depending on how many shetland/bfl lambs I kept back, and if any had trouble lambing bred to the BFL)
BFL ram: pigpig, mary, 184, 185, jane, lizzy, kitty, lydia, Corriedale ewes, shetland ewes
*I'm still undecided on breeding ewe lambs. I'll just have to see how the mule ewes grow. Although from what I've seen I think they will quickly outgrow all their mothers.
*Shetland ewes weighing 65-90# and BFL ewes 150-175#. If I average that combination you get smaller ewes 108# and bigger ewes 133# as an estimation for adult ewe sizes for that cross. 80% of that would be 86.4# and 106.4#. From what I see online from people with this cross I think breeding ewe lambs is a definite possibility. One person had 3.5 month old lambs weight 45-70#. From mother ewes weighing 65-95#.

2021 lambing-
By this point I think I will really need to buckle down to what are doing well and what are not. Ewes who are not, need to go. Ewes who are doing best need ewe lambs kept back. Also by this time I should be (if not already) looking out ewes who never breed the first cycle. As the flock grows having a tight lambing will be important, I should start with that intention.

2021 breeding-
This is when I will begin with multi sire groups. I will have picked the best two ram lambs that are BFL/shetland and best two ram lambs that are BFL/corriedale.
I think this first year I will put the BFL/shet over the BFL/shet ewes and any remaining pure shetland ewes. And the BFL/corr over the corriedale and BFL/corr ewes.
On the other hand if I put some BFL/shet ewes and some BFL/corr ewes with the opposite cross rams... then I could compare the same breed back cross lambs to the opposite cross bred lambs.

....Less linear thoughts on breeding. next line = next year's groups, (...) separate groups of same year. blank line between thoughts:

BFL ram x corriedale
BFL x corriedale & bfl/corr 50/50
BFL x bfl/corr ... bfl/corr 50/50 ram x corriedale
compare lambs stats between 50/50, 75 bfl/ 25 corr, 75 corr/ 25 bfl
*bring in corriedale ram? cheviot ram terminal?
*continue cross with 50/50 ram? need consider % relatedness.

BFL ram x shetland & shetland cross
compare lambs from shetland moms vs cross moms
BFL x shetland cross & bfl/shet & bfl/shet cross
compare lambs from diff moms
*bring in corriedale ram? cheviot ram terminal?
*continue crossing with 50/50 ram? need to consider % relatedness.

BFL ram x shet/border cheviot
compare lambs stats to shetland moms'
BFL x shet/b.ch. & bfl/shet-b.ch.
compare lambs

bfl/corr ram x bfl/shet & bfl/shet cr

bfl/shet x corriedale & bfl/corr

((edited to add italicized parts))

 

[ohiogoatgirl]

After reviewing the livestock sales reports on the auction website I am rethinking my original idea of feeding up the lambs until fall. It seems like I'm better off to watch prices and take them in june and do my best to feed em up by then. I'm looking at the barn and thinking on a creep feed setup. Heck some years the price doesn't drop until late july.
But I can't count on the price coming back up in the fall. 2017 the price crept right up in October but 2018 it was crap from august through November. If I try to keep them until fall anyways I have that much longer I pay for feed and odds of them falling ill or dying. I think it's a much better bet to aim for creep feeding them and take them in early summer. The price will have dropped a bit but won't as likely be down to crap.
Better to feed $ in creep for three months than $$ feed and hay over twice that time, and loose some, and still get the same or less $ as I'd have got taking them in june.

I'm also revisiting some breeding ideas. Still getting the BFL ram and next year Corriedale ewes. But to keep a shetland mule 'line' and a Corriedale mule 'line', not crossing the shetland and Corriedale. After I see what I'm getting from the two 'lines' over several years and how uniform they are getting (or not getting) then I can test crossing the lines (shetland mule rams over Corriedale mule ewes and vise versa). See how those crosses do. Then decide what to cull down to in order to make a more homogeneous flock.

I took some Christmas money and got the Flock Filer program. It's pretty cool. I've got everyone in there that I have now, and pertinent previous dam/sire animals. There is a few things you can just plug in numbers and it will tell you. Like the ml per #s and you type in the animals weight and it tells you the dose. And when you fill in the birth weight and weights after it will give you average daily gain, group average, adjusted weaning weights,...
I am really looking forward to seeing what I learn with it come lambing.

 

[ohiogoatgirl]

When it rains, it pours.... And I'm not just talking about the weather!

The rain! The snow! The rain! The snow! The cold! More snow! Rain agai- oh wait more snow and cold!

I'm trying to get the dingdang car insurance worked out and the bmv extension hangs up on me.
My laptop just died and I'm hoping it's a minor battery/cord issue.
The sheep have decided to jump on round bales now so I have to rig it up to keep em off. Which makes it more of a PITA to put out and feed off of for the boys paddock.

Ugh! This is not my month!

My life drama aside..
I'm going to try for an udder check. Just to see where everyone is now. And I've been thinking how early I should be able to tell some are bred. Right now is 60 to 80 days in from first/last breeding dates. I'm more than a little nervous at how many bred in just 20 days together.

Shearing is March 1st. That'll be days ~85-110. So I'm thinking Any bred *should* be visibly showing some wide-load (and udder progress on first timers?).

So this brings me to my current conundrum. Because obviously I don't have enough on my mind (/sarcasm/)...
If I have several unbred ewes at shearing I could put them with the boys and see if any take for late summer lambs. 3/9 due 8/3 wean oct/nov ready just in time for higher lamb prices.
Pros:
-high market price time
-otherwise unbred ewes still produce this year
-nice $ supplement going into winter
Cons:
-this is the very tail end of when shetlands are known to breed late. Late July is the latest lambs from my friend's shetlands.
-None may get bred.. if I have several ewes and one or two take then I'm dealing with second lambing and not much return. However 2 or 3 lambs to market is better than none..?
-several ewes take and lamb in August and I end up with alot of parasite problems. This seems to be the biggest argument I see. I'm not sure what to expect without trying though.

Also.. My friend is selling her border cheviot ram. I have two ewe lambs that are his daughters. I could definitely utilize him to the same goals and I'm expecting to pay more for a bfl ram lamb than his asking price. And he has two breedings under his belt.
I could get him just after shearing and put the unbred ewes to him. And get bigger lamb growout from him than I'm expecting from Bingley over mostly pure Shetland ewes.
And a new ram is supposed to have more of a ram effect on the ewes. According to the stuff on out of season breeding.
Plus some nice ewes would be perfect to keep back. Plenty of time to next fall breeding for them, 14 or 15 months old. Border cheviot cross ewes also perfect for breeding to the BFL ram I'd get. Actually maybe better. The pure Shetlands are a little too delicate for my liking, least these ones.
The only issue is money and timing. I gotta get the car insurance worked out and have enough $ for feed and shearing. Then see if I could swing it.