Our too small Nubian still too small

[MsDeb]

Instead of trying to hit everything I posted before and include the new information I'm just copying the post I just put on the FB goat vet sites. Sorry that some is repeated. Just trying to find answers.

We bought two month old full Nubian doeling in August. I didn't know enough to know she wasn't growing as she should until I realized a couple months ago she is less than half the weight she is supposed to be. She is currently 9 months old and weighs somewhere around 40 pounds. (She weighed 38 a couple weeks ago.) She seems healthy. She's active. Has a good coat. Hip bones show a little but I don't feel rib bones. When I realized she was too small we started giving her alfalfa pellets along with kid pellets and minerals and plenty of hay. Our vet gave us a series of wormer for her and her pen mate. I forget the name but they have had two cycles. I had him do blood work when we got our new goat and I just heard back that all tests came back negative. When we bought her we saw the mother, grandmother and two of her siblings when we got here. She was one of quads. She is from registered stock (although that didn't really matter to us) and I have been back in contact with the seller who assures me that the others are all the appropriate size. She's not that far from us and I know I could drive back out at any time but she has given me no reason not to believe her and offered a lot of suggestions when I first contacted her about my concern. Our vet says sometimes you just get a runt. (That would be our luck.) I had hoped to breed her with our ND buck for mini babies, but now I just want to make sure I'm doing everything we can do to be sure she is healthy. I'm sorry this is long but I am trying to give all the information I have at hand. We really appreciate our vet but there are not a lot of goats in our area so he does his best to give us the best care and information possible. I just feel like I should throw this out for second/third opinions in case there is something that either he or we have missed, or something else we should do.

 

[HoneyDreameMomma]

Hate to be the one to suggest it, but have you considered G6S (http://www.goatworld.com/articles/g6s.shtml)? Was that something your vet tested for? I really hope she is just a runt.

 

[MsDeb]

Hate to be the one to suggest it, but have you considered G6S (http://www.goatworld.com/articles/g6s.shtml)? Was that something your vet tested for? I really hope she is just a runt.

I think he was busy when he was texting. The message read car, which I assume to be CAE, Bruc?????? and Johnes.

 

[HoneyDreameMomma]

Might want to check if he can test for C6S. I read up on it a bit last year, because we had a Nigerian Dwarf doeling that stopped growing after about 3 weeks. My understanding is that C6S seems to mostly exhibit in Nubians. Does anyone out there have more experience with this?

 

[Southern by choice]

I do remember your other thread vaguely... but refresh us...

was the doe you got tested for CAE? Do you have any numbers on that?
I know G6S was recommended but at the time you couldn't afford it.
A fecal not serum for Johnnes would be good.

I just wonder if the goat didn't have cocci and has damage to her digestive system. That would cause mal absorption issues.
You could wait til spring and see if she picks up weight. Not all that unusual for slow growth in fall/winter depending on how cold your winters are.

 

[MsDeb]

OH SBC! I love you but your questions make me feel really dumb. CAE numbers? Fecal for Johnnes? (I really thought the blood work would answer questions, not create more!)
Is there a way I'd know if she had cocci? I thought that was something the vet gave her meds for when we brought her home. (Now I have to dig out my paperwork.)
Testing for G6S might have been mentioned but there were a lot of suggestions and I'm just trying to work my way through them. I started with the seller's recommendation of increasing the feed and I weighed her at least every couple of weeks. Then the vet said lets try med for tapeworm even though he said he didn't see signs in the fecal sample for worms. (Someone...maybe here...said that in the winter it doesn't always show up in fecal because there aren't as many eggs.....or something....DearLordIFeelFrustrated!!!!
The test for G6S , from what I read, was $42...or $30...depending on the place I read it. Of course I didn't look at the dates. I could have been reading info from 2004. Reading about it made me cry. (And I'm at work.)
I emailed the seller and asked her if she had her herd tested for it...or if she knew if the buck had been tested.
Maybe waiting to see what spring/summer brings will be my best next step. As long as she isn't passing something to my other goats, that is. How the heck am I supposed to know that at this point?
I certainly won't be breeding her unless she grows anyway.
Oh, and my cross post....I'm on Goat Vet Corner and was...WAS on The Goat Care Unit on FB. I guess the vet from Goat Care Unit does not appreciate anyone asking for advice from anyone but him. He PM'd me to ask where I'd cross posted. I told him and he literally said "Good luck with that. I don't agree with them." When I asked for his opinion of what I posted he said he didn't bother to read it and blocked me from the group. I've heard he was an ass, but I think that's an insult to asses everywhere. What a fun Friday this has turned out to be.

 

[Southern by choice]

First sorry you have been blocked. Sadly not unusual, most vets do not like it when they are questioned or anyone disagrees. I say all the time you can't get 3 vets in a room to agree on anything.
I do have a great deal of respect for their abilities however after working with so many (professionally and as just a farmer) I find they are as fallible as the rest of us.

First, your goat may be perfectly fine. Just small and a slow grower.


oops I have a call and need to take it... will be back when I can sweetie!

 

[Goat Whisperer]

I think I may have suggested the G6S on your other thread. I think about 25% of nubians carry it. This is a good article about G6S
http://kinne.net/g6s.htm

Did you see the documents yourself to verify that she is indeed negative for CAE as well as the other tests done on her? You would be shocked how many times a vet did a "quick look over" and told people that the tests came back negative........ Only to find out the hard way that they did have a problem.

Is she skinny or just small? Do you have any updated pics of her?

Tapeworms are not generally an issue for goats. At extreme counts it can be, but many don't even treat unless they are seeing "dog logs". I would see if you could get a fecal run at Kansas State Veterinary Diagnostic Lab. http://www.ksvdl.org/?labID=null
I am wondering if she has some other parasite issues going on. How are her eyelids?

How is her behavior? Does she act normal?

Try not to get overwhelmed with all the suggestions, just one step at a time!

 

[Pearce Pastures]

Hang in there. You are doing great! I know there is a lot of info out there and we are ALL always learning new things and relearning when what we have learned doesn't work. High fives for noticing she is small in the first place--lots would just shrug it off.

For cocci/coccidiosis concerns: Not all goats show signs like scouring and it could cause slowed growth. A fecal test would definitely show if she was overrun with them and it is very common. What we do---we order powdered sulfadimethoxine from Jeffers.com, mix the powder in a clean glass jar with one cup of warm water, mix until dissolved. Then treat for five day when our goats are 21 days old, again at weaning, and also any time they do have a fecal test indicate they are infested. If you decide to do this, feel free to PM and I will give you a copy of the directions I follow more specifically.

Tapeworms do not seem likely but do as your vet said so you keep the relationship with him. Vets can be touchy and i guess I kind of get it but the internet guy sounds like a jerk. There is no harm in getting a second opinion and a pro should be okay with you trying to get a clear picture of what could be going on here. What is your vet having you use for tapes?

The genetic testing sounds like it might be worth pursuing for you but I bet it is pricey. If she does have this genetic G6S, what would be done?

 

[Goat Whisperer]

The genetic testing sounds like it might be worth pursuing for you but I bet it is pricey. If she does have this genetic G6S, what would be done?

I believe it is $30-$45, so not to bad if you are doing a few goats, but it can get pricey! They will die if they are affected, but they should be fine if they are a carrier. It is good to know what the status is before breeding or selling.

This is a good chart....

Courtesy tanbrit tiny goats.