Pitbulls killed 200 goats

[WhiteMountainsRanch]

I have no hatred AT ALL for pits, and I'm sure some of them can be sweet. In fact I used to work with a Pit rescue (called "It's The Pits" ) and have seen plenty of "friendly" ones.... I however have had other experiences. I once dated someone that had one, a white female. I was over there all the time and we even took the dog camping with us. I have pictures of her sitting in my lap during the camping trip. After we got back from camping I went over there the very next day and the pit jumped and lept at me and almost attacked me. Only because of my good reflexes and ducking back out the gate when I saw her charging me saved me I'm sure. This breed just has a tendency to have a screw loose.

That being said ANY dog can get into a pack mentality and attack, even the sweetest best trained most docile dog. And ANY dog can revert to feral after being left on it's own.

I think the article was poorly written and omitted lots of important details, but it's sad that any livestock has been lost to feral dogs, there needs to be better plans in place to deal with them, they can even be a danger to humans. I've read a couple articles where people have been trapped and killed by feral packs.

 

[PendergrassRanch]

The issue with those stats SHK, is that many "pitbulls" and "Pitbull crosses" are miss identified. Any short coated, large head dog will be labeled a "pit". They simply cannot do that, but we know how the media craves the dramatics.

These dogs are so gravely misunderstood. They are no more dangerous than ANY OTHER dog breed. They are terriers, of course they have prey drive. Just because they have bigger heads and more muscle than your average terrier doesn't mean they are inheritably dangerous. Any dog, is dangerous in the wrong hands or if set up to fail.

Blame the deed, not the breed. And unless you can 100% identify the breed, don't label it as anything but human error.

 

[BlondeSquirrel04]

.This breed just has a tendency to have a screw loose.

Actually, they perform better in temperament testing than most "family dog" breeds.

There is NO evidence anywhere, from any scientific journal, from any vet, from anywhere, that says their brains are different than any other breed.

I had an Aussie flip his lid and bite several people (including myself and husband) with no warnings, no predicable scenarios. Several vets & behaviorists later, they did not find a problem. Some animals, just like some humans (think of all the mass murderers, terrorists, etc), are just not "right".

It's not fair to label a whole breed based on the actions of few.

<------Owner of 3 Pit Bulls. One of which is a doggy blood donor and donates blood every 6 weeks. He has saved more than 30 lives in the past year.

 

[Southern by choice]

I have worked with hundreds of breeds and thousands of dogs.
I am a dog person through and through.

I am really tired of the pro pit-bull ****

First , sick of hearing about how it is all in how you raise them etc. NOT TRUE.
Because of the extreme advocacy groups out there this really is a big issue.
Pit bull advocates are outraged when there is a media report involving bull terriers... in this you can include the American Staffordshire Terrier, Bull Terrier, Miniature Bull Terrier, Staffordshire Bull Terrier,

Here is the truth... many severe injuries and deaths NEVER make it to the media because of the groups out there that want to paint a picture of these sweet so misunderstood dogs- said with sarcasm.

I try NEVER to comment on Pit Bull matters as too many people get pissed off about it... but so tired of it now. Pendergrass no offense here because you are awesome with your dogs and have a real passion which is commendable but I have been working with dogs professionally longer than you have been alive, hence way more experience here.

I have noticed over the past ten years the constant attempt to re-invent the Bull terriers, change their history so to speak, denial of the truth all by the breed advocates.

I live in the Bull capital of the US... so we see alot here.. most stories never make it to the papers, media etc. there is way too much politicking going on. How many state approved vets have you worked with that have had to testify in court? That have had to go in measure the wounds to match it to the correct "pit-bull" , have you seen babies toes chewed off by the family pet? have you had a neighbor whose 3 year old was killed because it stepped over the property line and the chained restrained pit bull grabbed the 3 year old mauled it to death, police had to shoot 5 rounds in the dog before it would stop, they the mother of the 3 year old gets charged with not protecting her 3 year old/neglect why the owner of the pit bull wasn't charged with anything because the said dog was "properly Restrained". The family pet kills a family member it has been raised with from 6-8 wkspup?

Lots of dogs bite, this is true. However with the terriers especially the breeds mentioned above and mixes of these breeds it is HARD WIRED in these dogs to keep going, never give up, back down, til the death... and this is not just from those that use the dogs illegally for fighting, it is the HISTORY of the breed. So when a dog like this bites, it is never just a bite... it is a mauling or death. The end results are not the same as being bit by a dachshund, a lab, a poodle, even a shepherd or dobie.

Every year there are statistics on dog bites and generally the most bites come from whatever the "popular" breed is at thhe time, which makes sense, because of the sheer numbers. The difference is the majority of those bites are simply bites, not maulings or death.The same cannot be said for the bull terriers.

There was some ridiculousness awhile back ago about the "names" saying there is no such thing as a "pit bull terrier... not true.
The American Staffordshire Terrier has long been refferred to a Pit Bull Terrier, pit dog,american Bull terrier as far back as the 1870's originally as game terriers and guardians. All these above breeds were bred from similar stock and are closely related.
Bull Terriers are actually in many ways very friendly and playful yet can be extreme in a fight situation. These are the least seen in the Pit- Bull world due to their funny heads...simply not appealing to people. The Staffordshires have been fighting dogs since their development in the late 1800's.

Soooo, when we hear from groups that try to tell people that these were never fighting dogs and that this is just something bad people are doing with these dogs it is a FALSE statement. This kind of silly propaganda is actually doing alot of harm.

Back in the 80's the uprise in dogfighting became popular again. #1 choice were of course the above breeds, with the exception of the actual Bull Terriers, mostly the Staff, and the American Staff. There was alot going on to combat this and so there really were those that had stable dogs without the issues of today... that all started to go wrong when the rescue groups came along and wanted to save and rescue these dogs from fighting rings etc, then became the big promotion of the "so mis-understood" breed. Truthfully these dogs shouldn't be in most homes and the BS crap has caused more issues in the long run.

The silliness of telling people it's not the breed it's the people, or it's all in how they are raised is a LIE.
Seen way to many of these dogs raised in loving great homes yet have been responsible for loss of limbs, toes, 1/2 face etc.

Ask this question... if you were going to be bit by a dog would you rather be bit by a pit bull breed type or another breed? What would your answer be? Why?

There are many people on this forum that have worked with dogs for years will not touch or comment on these topics because they get too heated and they figure it is just not worth it. They are right... that is one reason why I never do... but now I am sick of this PC crap... the original article was poorly written but what I find interesting is how everyone is up in arms because they decsribed the dogs as pit bull type.... shortly after this article a jogger in Ca was killed when attacked by 4 , a few weeks ago another death, wake up- there is a reality here.

There is genetic inheritance. It isn't all in how an animal is raised. These dogs are not being mis-identified... they are very distinct in body and head structure, and usually when there is a problem of DEATH- measurements of wounds and jaw structure. Very few breeds have such distinct jaw structure.

 

[BlondeSquirrel04]

Go ahead, tell me you got it dead on with your first guess.

http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html

And tell me again how it's hard to misidentify the AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER, AKA Pit Bull....not Staffy Bull, not Bull, which are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. That's like saying a Lab and a Golden are the same because they each are Retrievers.

You say Bull Terrier in your entire post, which shows your complete lack of knowledge on dog breeds.

And yes, I will continue to fight for my breed. Tell me you wouldn't advocate for your own dogs when people call them monsters and killers completely based on media bias.

 

[Southern by choice]

My lack of knowledge... you must be joking .... I identified each breed and for the purpose of discussion chose a simple term... realize these breeds are all related from their origin...

also I am not against pitbulls, bull terriers... what ever politically correct term you want to use semantics with.

I do not advocate against these breeds in any way, but there is reality here.

 

[WhiteMountainsRanch]

realize these breeds are all related from their origin.

I have to agree with Southern on this one. I don't care if it's an American Staffordshire Terrier, American Pit Bull Terrier, or whatever you want to call it. The dogs are VERY VERY similar, same origins etc, that's why people can't tell them apart.

And just FYI, I like your page, it was fun, and yes I got the APBT on my very first choice.

And American Pit Bull Terrier is often shorted to "Bull Terrier"... doesn't mean she doesn't know what she is talking about, believe me she does!!!

 

[BlondeSquirrel04]

realize these breeds are all related from their origin.

I have to agree with Southern on this one. I don't care if it's an American Staffordshire Terrier, American Pit Bull Terrier, or whatever you want to call it. The dogs are VERY VERY similar, same origins etc, that's why people can't tell them apart.

And just FYI, I like your page, it was fun, and yes I got the APBT on my very first choice.

And American Pit Bull Terrier is often shorted to "Bull Terrier"... doesn't mean she doesn't know what she is talking about, believe me she does!!!

Are you joking? Seriously?

The BULL TERRIER and the AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER are two VERY DIFFERENT breeds. The APBT is called the Pit Bull and the Bull Terrier is called a Bull Terrier. That is it! No, NEVER, is the APBT called the Bull Terrier.


http://www.akc.org/breeds/bull_terrier/index.cfm

http://www.ukcdogs.com/Web.nsf/Breeds/Terrier/AmericanPitBullTerrier12012012

Go ahead, keep tell me those breeds are the same.

 

[Straw Hat Kikos]

Do the research as I did last night.

I could read you many descriptions. Could a dog be misidentified? Sure could, but nearly all of these are KNOWN to be Pit Bulls because they are family dogs, they are neighbor's dogs, friend's dogs, etc.

You can throw your fake stats and be biased and blind all you want but when someone goes out and gets unbiased and real stats you can't touch them. Sorry but the fact is, Pit Bulls do kill more people than any other breed by far. They are a deadly breed and a very dangerous breed when they want to be. And of course this is not all Pit Bulls. I mean if there are only a handful of dog deaths a year and yes most are by Pit Bulls but there are also many, many Pit Bulls out there so no not all are like that but if you think about the fact that they make up less than 5% of the US dog population and they have been responsible for 60% of the death in the last five year...stats you just can fight. Sorry.

 

[Southern by choice]

There origins are the same.

I understand the whole "name thing"... I have had GSD for 3 generations in my family...now 4. Rarely does anyone use the "proper" name of German Shepherd Dog. It is "shepherd most of the time and often when their is some mutt that looks blk/tan it is always referred to as a "shepherd like dog" there are many shepherd breeds! However when the term Shepherd is used it ia always associated with the German Shepherd Dog. THIS PEEVES ME TOO! But we have to move past that and get to the root issue because the semantics are not focusing on any of the concerns.

For dog fanciers the appearance of the American Staffordshire and the Staffordshire Bull Terrier and the Bull Terrier are very different. To the average person they really don't know the difference, especially between the American Staffordshire and the Staffordshire Bull Terrier. You also have the Cane Corso that gets mixed in too.

I want you to know I am not an advocate of any breeds of dogs being banned EVER! I will say many of the advocates are doing more harm than good by how they are handling these issues.
I have been around for awhile and have seen many breeds come under fire. I share with you an example, because I am not your enemy, and have respect for those that are standing up to advocate for their breed!
Back in the 80's the Rottweiler came under heavy fire and was responsible for maulings, death and were being banned in many communities and whole counties, this was just before the emergence of the ABOVE mentioned breeds.

What saved this breed is HOW the Rottweiler community handled it!

They acknowledged these dogs CAN BE very dangerous, they are guardians they should only be owned by people who can truly be responsible with them. In the "rottie" community they worked together, when there were issues they didn't deny it, they also didn't want everything rehabilitated. Dangerous dogs were put down. PERIOD. They did not send the message that no they are just misunderstood, they are sweet and lovable and it is the people. The community acknowledged the problems and began to be very selective and careful with the breed... also Remember this is before the whole spay /neuter and lets rescue everything.

Because of this they saved their breed!

Guess what happened... more and more people were refused by breeders(big and small breeders) and that is when the emergence of the "pit" terriers started.... that included American Staffordshire and the Staffordshire Bull Terrier and the Bull Terrier.

IMO the biggest mistake the advocates for the above breeds are making is by ignoring the data, the concerns of the people, and not really looking at the long term. The breeds are going to be lost if the momentum and the actions don't change.

We also live in a world where people are just kind of ignorant to the ways of dogs.
We had a neighbor years ago. I knew instinctively this dog wasn't to be trusted, his dog was always on our property, he would come over and go on and on about this dog... it really was the love of his life! I get that! Here is the thing, I warned him about the dog... OK, So I am a professional trainer with specialty in behavior, they guy wouldn't listen. I had to make sure my kids (they were young then) knew what to do... once the dog was right there and turned suddenly while I grabbed my son... owner still thought Oh he is just playing. GOOD GRIEF! Tried to tell him nicely etc. never listened.... Right before we moved the dog was out ran across thhe street and started attacking the other neighbor while he was checking his mail.
AC came, dog was quarantined and it got more serious because the dog had no rabies... guy though the didn't need one cuz he lived in a neighborhood.... Guess he didn't think of all the wildlife we were right up against- as it was a wildlife preserve.

My point is yes dog bite! Any pack, be it labs, mutts, goldens, beagles anything can attack a herd of goats. I think the story- poorly written- was more about the pack of dogs- wild. If it would have been reported a pack of Shepherd type dogs would you have been so Pissed off about it? They didn't get the name right????

Most people owning these breeds as well as quite a few others on the list don't know that their insurance companies will not cover injuries, some companies require a special "umbrella" insurance of 1,000,000 policy.

Many do not know that the tracking of dog bites and breed types are going into databases for the purpose of banning breeds. Many dog bites by small dogs go unreported as there is little to no damage.

One could argue it is all about responsible ownership...yep, but that means acknowledging what your breed is capable of. That IS responsible ownership.

Downplaying the possible "down" side to the breed is hurting the breed!

I see Pendergrasses "Gunner" and I just LOVE that dog!!!!!!!!!!
One of my favorite dogs from the kennels many many years ago was "Billy" an awesome girl that was snatched up out of a busted fighting ring...all the pups were euthanized but her.

Just because a person is voicing some other opinions and showing another side doesn't mean they are against you or the breed.
I want you to know that, Blonde squirrel, I LOVE dogs, they are incredible animals but I do want to see the advocates for these breeds to make changes for the betterment of the breed and come down HARD on their own breeds.... so the "bad seeds" so to speak are eradicated. Restore the integrity of the breeds and you will save it. Restore the confidence of the public by condemning attacks and maulings.

Food for thought from an oldie!