pregnancy toxemia in sheep & goats ...!! give Your opinion :)

[Goatkid51]

(If anyone reading isn't aware, alfalfa is 16-20:1 calcium : phosphorous, and corn is something like 1:5--high in phosphorous. You can feed fairly high levels of Ca or P, as long as they are balanced with each other at about 1.8-2:1 for goats. If your balance gets too far off, such as 1:1 or 5:1, you'll start seeing symptoms relating to calcium or phosphorous toxicity or deficiency, depending on your details. Now during lactation, the increased need for calcium is relatively higher than the increased need for phosphorous--yes, they need a little extra of that too--so lactating goats can tolerate higher ratios of Ca : P than they normally would. Anyway, just extra credit info for the science nerds out there . )

(And by the way, an imbalance in that ratio is what typically leads to urinary calculi, as well, generally too much phosphorous. Grains are high in phosphorous, most greens like grass and hay are the ideal of about 2:1, and that is why you most commonly see urinary calculi in pet male goats (smaller urethra and getting grain when they do not have an increased demand for production).)

 

[kuwaiti-90]

@Goatkid51

Hello ,
Thank you for adding the information and your participation in the subject.

There is a difference between calcium deficiency and pregnancy toxemia . Determined by blood analysis.

This depends on the owner of the sheep or goat and it varies depending on their feeding, the disease starts from the last months of pregnancy, and there are clear signs of the disease in case of lack of nutrition.
The shepherd of the sheep, must be a prophet and an expert on his flock of these diseases because they lose.
I often before the sheep-breeding season do the ultrasound scan sheep, isolate pregnant sheep from the rest of the herd and have a diet of their own.


Thanks .

 

[Goat Whisperer]

I ran into three cases of VERY minor PT last year (tender feet, sluggish), and I couldn't figure out why because I was giving them plenty of calcium--free choice loose minerals, grain mix with 2:1 calcium, and alfalfa/grass hay with a high percentage of alfalfa. And they were on the alfalfa since about 4 months before kidding.

Well, it turns out... if you give a goat high levels of calcium before their bodies need it (4 months before kidding), the calcium pump/system that their bodies use to regulate the calcium stops trying to store it away due to the excess. Then when the goats kid and come into milk, even though there is lots of calcium available, the goats have trouble metabolizing it properly because that system for storing it had shut down.

Moral of the story is be careful to maintain calcium levels around the normal 2:1 until sometime in the third trimester or last month of pregnancy, (and that's very possibly what happened to Goat Whisperer's goat). And if, by chance, you overfed calcium and are now seeing PT symptoms, the only treatment is to load them up even more with Calcium since their bodies aren't absorbing it well, until it's time for them to dry off.

Good info BUT my goat did not have hypocalcemia. I did supplement with a little calcium because blood work showed she would be fine to have a little, but I was not going to load her up on it. My goat had pregnancy toxemia- which is known as ketosis after the goat kids. Ketosis is a glucose issue, not a calcium issue.

 

[RoahT]

I have a question- how do you tell the difference between toxemia and milk fever?

 

[Goat Whisperer]

When we dealt with PT I used ketone strips and had our vet run some blood work.

But the tender feet were a dead giveaway, clearly PT.

 

[RoahT]

When we dealt with PT I used ketone strips and had our vet run some blood work.

But the tender feet were a dead giveaway, clearly PT.

What do you mean exactly by tender feet? Sorry, I'm an extreme greenhorn!!

 

[Goat Whisperer]

What do you mean exactly by tender feet? Sorry, I'm an extreme greenhorn!!

Her feet hurt. We first noticed because she stumbled, not normal but not a huge deal either. But then she did it again. Something is wrong. When she moved, she acted like her feet hurt. Some say it’s like they are “walking on eggshells”. Thankfully our doe never went down. Never had the odd smelling breath or swollen feet.

 

[kuwaiti-90]

@Goat Whisperer
@RoahT

Welcome to you ..

This explanation needs to be explained by a veterinarian, but I will explain the difference between milk fever and PT.

PT Is the expression of the level of sugar in blood, which causes the cessation of liver secretion to the blood and the distribution of elements and food in blood and also kidney functions are not balanced. And also low levels of calcium in blood.

But things happen when PT is the temperature of the body for a day & half day Increase to 40 Celsius, and then return normal with the sheep or goats, and the temperature seems normal after falling or sitting, accompanied by a change in the color of the udder to dark red or blue And stop the movement of blood inside and have a cold sage
(The end of the general poisoning of the sheep or goat) and then farewell to her at the last stages even after birth some times.

Realistic explanation:
Milk fever, is drop of the level of calcium in blood and see the sheep or goat is not balanced by walking as in PT but the difference after the fall is accompanied by a drop in the temperature of the body, this happens for sheep or goats produced large amounts of milk.

VETERIA:
Lack of the level of ionized calcium in the blood and tissue is the basis of the disease where a temporary period of lack of calcium level at the beginning of the period of generation causes imbalance between the secretion of calcium in milk (sarcophagus) and calcium to the tissues of the intestine and bone.

Detection by blood examination and test .

In the case of PT occurs the descent of most of the internal elements and sugar in the body together with calcium also for the bad (liver distribution), but ((accompanied by a rise in the level of urea (urine or Uric) blood + acetone before urea), we will notice a close relative of apple vinegar or acetone It smells by mouth, Stopping kidney function and urinary incontinence causes high levels of urea in blood and acetone.

I hope the explanation will be clear.
All this explanation and personal effort and from his experience in the areas of sheep and goats, and does not enrich the consultation of the veterinarian.

 

[whisperingsage]

My standard supplements that prevent that are kelpmeal free choice, dolomite free choice, raw rice bran a cup or two per head per day, Vitamix multiple vitamin powder, a tablespoon per head, more if they crave it, they know what they need, and agrilabs electrolyte in the winter for the vitamin D. ( Or the goats eat the sheep's wool, which is a rich source of vitamin D, woolgrease, they are icelandics). Stay away from soy, it messes up hormones, too much estrogen, and too many antinutrients. I tried soy for two years, really caused some damage. When I can't afford supplements, yes I have had the swollen feet. But I haven't had that for years now. Make sure you get a trace minerals block with iodine. We also have to supplement with copper and selenium here, even sheep.

 

[whisperingsage]

Also look up the work of William Albrecht, the soil science founder. And then look up Dead Doctors Don't Lie by Joel Wallach and look at his videos, there are lots. He was originally a veterinarian and expanded to humans when he saw how stupid the research field was.