Pumpkin as a dewormer?

[Southern by choice]

I do use chemical dewormers and will continue to do so. They are effective. Abuse of chemical dewormers is an issue.
"Natural remedies" are also effective. The issue is it is not a $ making business and therefore little research is done.
Second issue is without real knowledge of how these play a role then people guess and think I gave pumpkin seeds and think the job is done. Not so, much more to it than that.
There are several companies with those trained in herbals, their products are effective. Just as anything people don't bother to follow up and do the things necessary.
To say there is no evidence is laughable.
Goats, sheep, cattle etc have been proving this for thousands of years. Getting what they needed from the natural sources all around them.
Limiting these animals to small areas with fences is what has caused the issue however if one can get what was provided by nature then great.

So, what dewormers were available for the last 6,000 years or so? I think that since we still have sheep, goats, cattle etc there must be something to it.

@Carla D the following are two very good resources- I know Fir Meadows also shows their goats. Very beautiful animals.
https://landofhavilahfarm.com/loh/
https://www.firmeadowllc.com/

 

[Carla D]

what

So, what dewormers were available for the last 6,000 years or so? I think that since we still have sheep, goats, cattle etc there must be something to it.

There has to be something out there that is all natural or non-medicated to treat parasites. There must also be an all natural antibiotic. I’m not opposed to using medication when it is needed. I used to work in the medical field. But there must be some plant or herb available to fight off infections as well. It’s probably something very simple or readily available. Not only animals but people still exist today to be able to continue procreating. Probably something that hasn’t been used for hundreds if not thousand years ago. Save the medicated/pharmaceuticals for when they really need to be treated because nothing natural is working in that situation. It is very important to keep our food and animals as free as possible.

 

[greybeard]

Interesting choice of dewormer. I wonder if Longhorn Mint would have that effect on our pigs. It works for my husband. Hasn’t has had worms for over thirty years.

In 2006, I saw a mountain lion on this property, about 350 yards from where I'm sitting now. My wife planted a Hibsicus in the front yard right after our house was completed in '09..it dies back in winter after 1st frost but always comes back in the Spring. We have not had a visit from any mountain lions since it was planted.
Ergo.........

(My grandfather's cows always looked bad,... before, during and after the Brown mule treatments...My grandmother dipped Red Rooster snuff..........she probably never had worms either, but come to think of it, she was always a tiny woman to begin with.)

Some more reading:
https://www.wormx.info/derole
https://equusmagazine.com/management/diatomaceous-earth-dewormer-15880
https://www.sheepandgoat.com/de

 

[Southern by choice]

There has to be something out there that is all natural or non-medicated to treat parasites. There must also be an all natural antibiotic. I’m not opposed to using medication when it is needed. I used to work in the medical field. But there must be some plant or herb available to fight off infections as well. It’s probably something very simple or readily available. Not only animals but people still exist today to be able to continue procreating. Probably something that hasn’t been used for hundreds if not thousand years ago. Save the medicated/pharmaceuticals for when they really need to be treated because nothing natural is working in that situation. It is very important to keep our food and animals as free as possible.

Of course there many things however googling and giving something is not going to be effective. There are many who are trained, skilled, years of advanced education that do know what different plants, fungi etc work. What may and may not be given together etc. It simply isn't just a guessing game and I think this is why there are so many that are vehomently opposed to natural treatments and don't think they are effective. They aren't if given improperly.

Well known Egyptian Physician were treating medically with great success 3000BC
Imhotep around 2650 BC is one of the most known. No one knows if it was Imohotep but around this time frame moldy bread was placed on open wounds - it was very successful. Today this is known as Penicillin. Certain molds produce Penicillin.

Many natural products can be extremely dangerous and highly toxic.

IMO there is a balance.
The reason I do not recommend the all natural method is because unless a person is consulting with someone trained, and advanced in this method it will not be successful.
There is a great deal of "drama" in regard to natural vs todays methods using more manufactured products.
There is considerable hype from mostly those that have nothing to do with livestock, animals, farming, management etc.

Nicotine-
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6287576/


Plants as deworming-
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2202332/

Again, little research is done here (USA) because of lack of funding and profitability.

Funny how many with down anything natural yet NIH has done many studies and are continuing as certain mushrooms have shown to be beneficial in many (womens) cancers. They are continuing research for other areas.
Lion's Mane Mushroom- is the only known "substance" to have nerve regeneration properties. It is now being used and advanced studies in those with Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, Dementia. Also in some of the Guillain-Barre Variants.
Research now is showing promising results for treatment of Lymes disease.

IOW- we are in a way because of the hoopla somewhat returning to thousands of years of natural treatments. Throughout Asia and Africa herbs and plants are still the number one go to. Chinese medicine is very effective.

 

[greybeard]

Just to be clear:

I also believe that 'absence of evidence does not equal evidence of absence' so if and when real scientific evidence is produced, I may change my mind on the use of 'natural' medication.

I am always open to new information and learning, but I prefer not to accept anecdotal evidence when it comes to the health of animals. Even when my vet says she is going to prescribe a certain treatment, I question it..how does it work, is it proven to be effective?..is there something better?
One thing is for sure, in most all cases, regardless of their actual efficacy, the 'natural' treatments don't appear to cause any harm other than a false sense of security.

In the US and Canada, the Alternative Medicine sector is a $34 billion/year business.
I would think they could spend a little $$ on some true independent research..

I used a vet for awhile that was 'kinda' into the 'all natural' thing (probably what you would call 'balanced') and I once asked her why all these companies that are now making loads of $$ off their natural/herbal products hadn't funded an independent university research study to show the world they work.
She was honest. "They're afraid the study will show the opposite..they don't want to shoot themselves in the foot and have to pay for it too."
She was a good vet and I was sorry to see her move out of this area.

 

[Carla D]

Just to be clear:


I am always open to new information and learning, but I prefer not to accept anecdotal evidence when it comes to the health of animals. Even when my vet says she is going to prescribe a certain treatment, I question it..how does it work, is it proven to be effective?..is there something better?
One thing is for sure, in most all cases, regardless of their actual efficacy, the 'natural' treatments don't appear to cause any harm other than a false sense of security.

I used a vet for awhile that was 'kinda' into the 'all natural' thing (probably what you would call 'balanced') and I once asked her why all these companies that are now making loads of $$ off their natural/herbal products hadn't funded an independent university research study to show the world they work.
She was honest. "They're afraid the study will show the opposite..they don't want to shoot themselves in the foot and have to pay for it too."
She was a good vet and I was sorry to see her move out of this area.

Very insiteful. She seems like my kind of person, vet, health person I’d like to hook up with. I have only recently started using a natural substance for my pain, anxiety, depression, mood stability. I like it.

 

[Southern by choice]

Just to be clear:


I am always open to new information and learning, but I prefer not to accept anecdotal evidence when it comes to the health of animals. Even when my vet says she is going to prescribe a certain treatment, I question it..how does it work, is it proven to be effective?..is there something better?
One thing is for sure, in most all cases, regardless of their actual efficacy, the 'natural' treatments don't appear to cause any harm other than a false sense of security.

I used a vet for awhile that was 'kinda' into the 'all natural' thing (probably what you would call 'balanced') and I once asked her why all these companies that are now making loads of $$ off their natural/herbal products hadn't funded an independent university research study to show the world they work.
She was honest. "They're afraid the study will show the opposite..they don't want to shoot themselves in the foot and have to pay for it too."
She was a good vet and I was sorry to see her move out of this area.

Products developed take time to study as you know. I am an advocate of today's "medicine" and strongly support the use of them.
Just because the last 80 years we have moved away from the things that worked and methods used for thousands of years doesn't mean they are ineffective.
Commercial farming has brought about these modern methods. Don't get me wrong, I DO support commercial farming and am thankful these products have been developed. Unfortunately they have been overused and are losing their effectiveness. You see it all the time here where people just deworm without knowing what they have what they are treating etc.

Recently this was approved and the first shipment is coming to the US
https://www.wormx.info/single-post/2018/04/13/BioWorma---Duddingtonia

QUOTE-
The product is based on a strain of Duddingtonia flagrans, a fungus that occurs naturally in the environment and is found all over the world. The Duddingtonia flagrans spores are fed to grazing animals in feed supplements and have no effect on internal parasites within the animal.They pass onto pastures in the manure where they trap and eat the larvae of the major parasitic worms in sheep, cattle, goats and horses.

This article has much more information. It has 5 states left in the US to approve it.

I am not jumping on the bandwagon but want to observe.

 

[GypsyG]

Very insiteful. She seems like my kind of person, vet, health person I’d like to hook up with. I have only recently started using a natural substance for my pain, anxiety, depression, mood stability. I like it.

I too have been known to use a natural substance for my pain, anxiety, depression, and mood stability from time to time, to excellent effect.

 

[greybeard]

Unfortunately they have been overused and are losing their effectiveness. You see it all the time here where people just deworm without knowing what they have what they are treating etc.

yep, 'therapeutic' use of all kinds of things, and not just with dewormers.
I've said it before.....a great deal of what we do is less about the animal and more about making ourselves feel good.......feel that we've 'done something' to help even when there was no problem to begin with.

guilty myself at times.......
Against my better judgment and mostly to placate my overly sensitive wife, I built two 32'x22' loafing sheds here so the cattle would have somewhere to get out of the weather.
I knew dang well they would rarely, if ever use either one and they haven't....maybe a couple times in the last 5 years and then only in freezing drizzle. They're born with a hair covered leather coat, and they don't care if it's 105° or 25°, they're going to be outside 99% of the time.
"Dumb cows" my wife says......

 

[Southern by choice]

I too have been known to use a natural substance for my pain, anxiety, depression, and mood stability from time to time, to excellent effect.

Many plants and herbs are very effective however far too many take stuff without knowing or understanding that there can be bad side affects.
One friend had been having blood pressure issues and I asked her if she was taking anything - on any meds or anything that would suddenly be causing this issue. She was adding an herbal supplement to her tea. She was completely unaware that the herb she was adding can CAUSE high blood pressure. As with anything we need to KNOW and research better yet work with people who are skilled. My family physician was a regular MD however was certified in alternative medicine. He also did chinese medicine, acupuncture, was well versed in herbal medicine. Sadly he passed away. Best doctor ever!

Although I am a believer in the herbal ways I like to say "yeah, well anthrax is natural too".
IOW-
There is a false sense of security and far too many do not understand that these things can have adverse effects and are not necessarily safe for all people/animals.