Question for horse people

[sterlng&sierra]

Ponies are very intelligent and can be strong-willed, which is why they sometimes get a bad name. Sometimes, people think "It's a pony, so it is bound to bite/kick/be disobedient," which is absolutely not true. If they are trained correctly, most can be very good partners for a small adult or a child.

And, I would not go back to a place where no helmets are given out on a trail ride. No matter how safe your horse is supposed to be, something can startle it or upset it, and a novice rider is easily thrown by even a small spook or mis-step, and helmets save lives. The place you rode at is setting themselves up for a lawsuit, if anyone gets hurt while riding because there were no helmets.

 

[w c]

To answer the original question, most experienced, skilled horse people aren't afraid around horses. Being afraid is a liability and some horse people will tell you, a luxury they can't afford. It distracts a person when they need their full concentration. But experienced people aren't generally afraid because they believe if they follow the rules, that will keep them from getting hurt.

Being prudent, cautious, that's different. Safety comes from not over-estimating one's own skills, being able to 'read' the horse.

I always felt that if I followed the rules, I'd be safe. It's never failed me. When I've gotten sloppy, gotten in a rush, not paid attention, I've gotten hurt.

I think some less experienced horse people are afraid. Experienced people generally aren't.

Most accidents occur because people disregard simple safety rules, that is to say, there really are very, very few true 'accidents'. It's not an accident when a person is doing a half dozen things that are guarenteed to put him in trouble. Most people lead horses, handle horses, equipment, etc in a way that leads to accidents. They don't realize it, but they do.

Your daughter is getting lessons, and at good lesson barns, children are taught how to lead, handle and ride safely. They're given skills that make them safe around horses. Most of all, they're taught to wear a riding helmet while they're riding. Most people don't get riding lessons. Generally, they feel they don't need them.

Adults tend to stubbornly hang on to whatever habits they've developed - whether it's walking out in front of a horse as they lead it, wrapping lead ropes around their hand, or 'stepping down' - dismounting with one foot in a stirrup....they will stick like glue to it. And sometimes if they have a quiet horse they won't get hurt - for a while, anyway.

When interviewed, most instructors and trainers will say, no matter what type of riding they are involved in, that the #1 thing that causes people problems with horses, is that they put themselves in situations they don't have the skill to handle. Getting an untrained, young horse, getting a horse that's too frisky or quick, things like that.

 

[michickenwrangler]

Ponies often get away with stuff that people wouldn't put up with from larger animals--what I call chihuahua syndrome since many chihuahua owners just shrug off the nips they get from those dogs.

Most riders and horse people usually do have to face fear at some point or another in their riding careers, whether it's just a fear of riding in general, fear of falling, fear of falling AGAIN, fear of jumping, fear of horse bolting or whatever.

A little bit of fear is healthy since it keeps you from getting complacent. Most horse people get very COMFORTABLE with horses but too much comfort can be a bad thing. What WC said about getting stuck in habits.

 

[goodhors]

Most ponies, especially older ponies, are smarter than you would think. They learn quickly, have experienced more, so they react quicker than most horses in good or bad ways.

As the mom, you sound fearful, but working to overcome it. Willing to TRY doing things to help reduce your worries. It may be real hard, but do not project your fears so the child picks up on them. Fearful children have hard lives, worrying about everything. Even things that PROBABLY will never happen.

Being cavalier about injuries after asking or checking for severity, is the best way to handle things with kids. As you say, parents always seem more worried than the kid who is not coddled. Without lots of blood, limbs bent at wrong angles, there usually is not much to get excited about. Husband sees lots of injuries in his work, both human and equine. His line is "Wound is a long way from the heart!!" No much sypathy from him because he sees REALLY bad injuries regularly. Not even all horse related!!

With equines large and small, you will pick up some bumps and bruises along the way. Part of being with herd animals who use their body to help with "status", leadership in a group. Group could be you and horse, someone HAS to be in charge. Horse will be the leader, if YOU don't take command!

I would second you getting some riding lessons, along with horse handling lessons. Knowledge is power! The more you know, the better you can control conditions around you and any horse you handle. Your daughter should be getting this safety and handling information in her riding lessons. She is helping prepare the ponies for riding lesson, grooming and unsaddling, after lesson care isn't she? If not, I would ask that she did get it added to her lessons.

Those marvelous horses who have "been there, done ALL that" are a gift for those who get to use or own them. Often passed on, not sold, from family to family. I have heard of some folks finding them with advertising, but not common. They teach the whole family how GOOD horses should be, set expectations very high for horse number two! May not be pretty, but worth the money if you ever come across them while looking for a horse.

I put up with some not-nice animals when I couldn't afford better. They just had petty reactions to anything you wanted of them. No more, I won't put up with that now. We may start with young horses, but they all are kindly, nice minded and enjoy being with you, whatever you want to do with them. Their first reaction is NEVER to kick, even if surprised. Anyone here who kicks, goes on the retrain a kicker program. If we can't fix it, they LEAVE. This would be kicking in the herd, kicking in the barn, as their first startle reaction when something happens.

As mentioned, you can visualize all the BAD stuff happening. All it does is give you a headache or an ulcer. Life is for living, not worrying about possibles! You take reasonable care in your activities, try to pay attention to your setting. Not much more that you can do to prevent things happening. I also look at "accidents" and setting or what was going on when it happened. Do I need to change how I do things? Maybe the setup is poor, causing "almost accidents"? Those near miss things are your warning to CHANGE something!

If you want to worry about safety, helmet is a BIG DEAL. You set the good example for child, by wearing a helmet EVERY RIDE. Helmet needs to fit you well, be comfortable. I would say to get your own and one for the kid. Should be an expected part of yours and her riding clothes, NO EXCEPTIONS. You NEVER know when you or she might fall off, so you and she ALWAYS wears the helmet to ride.

When buying check inside the helmet for the manufacture date and ASTM or SEI Approval for horse activities. This date is when helmet was made, should be less than 5 years from that date. Lots of helmets on sale that are OVER the date, should be discarded, but they can't lose the money invested. So I would not purchase a brand new, in-the-box helmet that was over 5yrs from the maker date. Helmets with no date, no Approval sticker, over the date, are merely HATS. Hats are not protective, just items of apparel that cover your head. Not a Safety item at all.

You should purchase a NEWER helmet when the date inside expires at 5 years or helmet has gotten hit hard when someone fell off. Stored in hot cars, trailers, also is not a good idea. This is manufacturer suggestion, plastics deteriorate and impact material inside develop tiny cracks or impact material has been "used up" with a crash. I would not be buying a used helmet, don't know how they kept it or if THEY crashed wearing it.

The saying "A helmet for every ride" is a good one to keep in mind. Falling off can happen when you get on horse for ANY reason, so helmet has to be on rider's head to make a difference. Doesn't matter your skill level or experience, horse can put you off or fall down, you will hit your head.

 

[momofonly]

Wow, so much great advice from everyone!

Yes, they do grooming, saddling, taking off the saddle at the end and all that at each lesson. They told her that if she moves behind the horse (like when she's brushing it) to pat it on the back end so it knows she's there, and to avoid getting kicked. In fact, it was overconfidence in this that caused her to get kicked. Apparently, she thought if she just patted the old, wandering pony on the back she could get behind it.

Thankfully, she wasn't with me when I forgot to wear my helmet, so she doesn't know about that.

She always wears her helmet- of course it's required. I always have them check to make sure it's on right, too, since the teachers have more knowledge about that.

Overall, it's been a really good experience so far. I never thought about horses much before and was always a little scared of them. It might be because I got bitten on the abdomen by a pony at the age of 7! I was waiting in line for a pony ride, and when it was my turn, the pony turned its head and bit me. I didn't do anything to provoke it, I was just standing there. But apparently, the guy in front of me was teasing the pony (so I heard). I think that was my last pony ride. My parents probably didn't trust them after that.

 

[w c]

Some of those pony ride ponies are in miserable condition and in a lot of pain. While there are a few good pony ride strings, most are not.

Unfortunate ponies often wind up on the 'pony ride line' after being sold due to lameness - some owners do not have the integrity to keep a pony in their care, or even, to have it quietly put to sleep when it is in intractible pain. I can't even usually bear to LOOK at most of them. They shuffle along on those rides in abject pain. It's no wonder they occasionally lash out.

Of course, it's perfectly possible the pony was biting at a fly, and got you by accident. They often mean no intentional harm at all, and are just reacting instinctively.

ALTHOUGH...MOST people in trying to 'get away from the hooves', put themselves squarely in Kick Zone Central! When standing close to the animal, a kick has no velocity - it's that spot 2-6ft BEHIND the animal where a kick has much more punch.

Ever notice how most experienced people keep one hand on the rump and walk SO CLOSE to the hind quarters? Well that's why. If you get kicked when that close, it feels like a harmless bump most of the time. One either keeps contact with the animal and brushes past very close, or stands a good fifteen feet back. Of course, that's for a gentle, well trained animal. There are horses I would not do that with, but they would not be at a children's riding school, either.

So in her situation, a word or pat the animal right before you walk behind it. The animal could be dozing or inattentive and not even realize you're there. Again, they can think of only one thing at a time.

MOST of the time when there is a problem, the horse didn't INTEND to harm the person at all. Most of them have no idea what's going on. They simply do not see the world the way people do. They do not think in the same way we do. Of course they have feelings, emotions, they have all that. But they have a very different outlook on the world than we do.

It's that time one spends around the animal, that lets you enter into their world, and understand how they see the world.

Riding lessons don't, and can't, teach little children how to react in EVERY situation. They give set rules for their ponies and children are best off following set rules in their riding school. It takes many years before one has the experience to translate those set rules into 'per situation'.

As an example, at nearly sixty years old with many years around horses, I still hang back and watch OTHER people approach a strange horse first, LOL. I don't even think about it. I'm not anxious, I'm not worried, I'm just, like that character in Indiana Jones, that says, 'why don't you go first', LOL.

Horses have a 'body language'. They tell you just what they're going to do with their ears, and their body position, and expression. Their muscle tension, how they shift their weight from one leg to another. My boyfriend is constantly saying, 'how did you know he was going to do that?' I can't even tell him sometimes, it just becomes second nature after a while.

After a while, you get to know that, and you feel like they are 'telling' you everything they are going to do, well before they do it. It really becomes like a conversation between two creatures who understand each other.

And believe me, there is no fear, where there is that understanding.

 

[momofonly]

Some of those pony ride ponies are in miserable condition and in a lot of pain. While there are a few good pony ride strings, most are not.

Unfortunate ponies often wind up on the 'pony ride line' after being sold due to lameness - some owners do not have the integrity to keep a pony in their care, or even, to have it quietly put to sleep when it is in intractible pain. I can't even usually bear to LOOK at most of them. They shuffle along on those rides in abject pain. It's no wonder they occasionally lash out.

Well, this pony ride where I got bitten was when I was 7, and I'm 41 now, so we're talking over 30 years ago. (I think it was in 1976.) It wasn't actually at a fair, or a zoo or anything like that. It was actually something a couple of teenagers set up by the side of the road. I guess these kids had their own pony and wanted to make some extra money. Can you imagine anyone doing that now? I can't- I'm sure everyone would be afraid of the potential lawsuits! When I got bitten (and a big nasty bruise as a result) and cried, my parents just took me home. I can imagine nowadays a lot of parents would threaten to sue. Different times, I guess.

Thanks for all of the great info, BTW!

 

[Electric]

Most people that are "fearless" around horses really aren't "Fearless". They just do not show fear. I have been around horses all my life. I have been kicked in the face twice, and it severely broke my jaw the second time. I have also been bucked off and broke my arm when my horse stomped me. But, I got up and got back on every time (except when I was seriously injured) . I have also broken three aggressive horses. One was a 7 year old thoroughbred cross mare that I broke when I was 12. She was a breeze to train, but you always had to watch your back. She struck me with her front foot once, and cracked my skull. I was putting her halter on. I am now riding her in dressage and barrel racing, she is 15. I was extremely scared of horses when I was small. I still am, but to a smaller degree. Over the years, I have learned that it is best not to show your fear, I broke a 6 year old aggressive stud when I was 19, he was a Percheron Shire cross. He kicked me in the ribs, and almost killed me. Three weeks later, I was on his back and running him around the round pen. What helped with him is to sing. I find that singing masks fear in the best way.
Here are some tips for when you are scared around horses, that I have learned over my years of experience:
1. Sing - Singing always masks fear, or humming.
2. Stay away from the rear end! They always tend to kick with their hind legs when you are scared(Thats what I find)
3. Pat them , and talk in a calm voice - No "Its ok pretty horsey" stuff either ! Most horses DO under stand what you say, no matter what people say. I talk to my horse when I am scared and I actually tell them why. I find it works. (whether the horse really understands, or your self conscious kicks in and makes your brain think they did)
I hope this information helps you!

 

[mydakota]

You know, I really don't experience fear in the moment. When I am in the moment, I am very calm and very focused on "riding through". But I sure as heck experience it afterwards sometimes. Fear and anger are completely useless emotions in horsemanship. You absolutely cannot let them rule you in the moment. But you would have to be an idiot to not realize that a 1200 lb animal with a highly developed fight or flight response is potentially dangerous. That is just reality. All of life has risks. My best advice (and what I try to follow myself) is to be aware and realistic in your assessment of the risks. Assess if my skill is up to the challenge. Take those precautions that are prudent to take. And ride. My gelding is a hot little number. He is very athletic and strong. So I always wear my helmet when I ride him. His saddle has breakaway stirrups. I try to make it a habit to never get complacent and get caught out of position. And then I go out and enjoy my horse. The day I let fear factor in to how I ride him will be the day it is time to take up crochet. Or go buy a 25 year old overweight point-and-shoot schoolmaster. And still enjoy my horse.

 

[secuono]

You gotta stay confident around a horse, if you start getting fearful, you just stop and breathe. Cus if you don't, you will start thinking about the horse picking up your fear, instability and it will just freak you out more. You'll think about all the things that could go wrong and that will make you mess up and over look something. So time and just keeping calm goes a long way.
People get spooked by unexpected things just like horses do. You just breathe and restart.