Questions about milk & cream

[farmerjan]

A good grass hay of some sort will do for all goats with supplementing those with higher nutritional needs/ milking etc. In Va orchard grass has a good protein content and they will not have any problems overeating as could happen with something like alfalfa.
I don't have goats, but there will come a time when the kids will have to be separated to dry off does, or just milk for you as they get along later in lactation... and all males must be separated unless banded, when young. You are going to have to have at least 2 different "pens" at least for part of their lives...
Don't have the answers for some of the other questions...
@Mini Horses and @rachels.haven have goats, and milk... I think also @frustratedearthmother does goats and milking...

 

[peteyfoozer]

TheMan made some really nice panels for me to lock my goats up, welding 6ga hogwire to 1 5/8 steel pipe. (We used to manufacture livestock housing) But we made a cattle panel shelter we which they quickly climbed and used as a springboard to escape
Then they ate 2 of the grafts off of my 3 variety apple tree. Fortunately , the ine that survived grows the best apples I ever had. We finally sold the goats and got Dorper sheep and a Jersey cow. I miss their antics but I just couldn’t keep up with them.

 

[oaksandiron]

.......But we made a cattle panel shelter we which they quickly climbed and used as a springboard to escape .......

Oh, my gawd, it was the FIRST thing my girls did with their cattle panel hoop house! I am talking 30 seconds. Stomped it to bits.

I miss their antics but I just couldn’t keep up with them.

h
Girl, NOBODY keeps up with goats.

 

[Ridgetop]

Adding a wether is also a possibility but I would really like the first goats I get two to be does.

Don't bother with a wether. They are good for nothing, just eat hay and poop, adding to the feed bill and cleaning chores. You will have enough fun (and work) with the dairy does and their kids. Dairy does have udders and rarely jump fences, while wethers can. In 20 years we had very little problem with escaping goats, particularly once we had the right latches our gates - we used a chain and clip. We used a chain and clip with our horses too since they were much more adept at unfastening latches than our goats!

I know that's a somewhat controversial topic but should I be worried about horns in older goats?

Don't have goats with horns. With small children, horns can be dangerous. Goats with horns fight more, damage fences and feeders, and can get caught by the horns in them. If your children want to join 4-H and show their goats at the Fair (once a year it will be fun and exciting) no goats with horns can be entered. If your goats don't have horns DO NOT buy one with horns to join them. The horned goat will hurt the others.

I intend to breed to polled and disbud when the time comes,

POLLED: Stay away from naturally polled goats since natural polling is associated with hermaphroditism in goats. I have seen 2 hermaphrodites in 20 years with dairy goats. One born in our herd and one belonging to another child. I showed the last one to a college friend of my daughter who was studying science. I thought they would find it interesting but DD1 said it embarrassed her that I was so interested in it!

Disbudding is not hard once you learn how to do it. You have to steel yourself to the smell and screams of the kids (most of the screaming occurs when they are confined in the disbudding box. However, as soon as they are released from the disbudding box and get a bottle they are just fine again. Console yourself with the thought that it is better for them and yoi. You can also talk to a local breeder and see if they will do the deed for you, usually at a week to 10 days.)

Is there a universal hay I can feed to bred/lactating does and non-lactating? Is alfalfa too much for doelings? Can I put out free choice hay for everyone and just supplement lactating does on the stanchion?

We are in southern California where the cheapest and best quality hay is alfalfa. We fed the best alfalfa we could get (eventually the herd had grown to 100 and we bought it by the field.) Free choice hay should be fed every day. Clean out the feeder every day and remove any stemmy bits that the goats refuse to eat. This leftover hay can be used to feed a bottle calf or in your garden for mulch. The milking does will get their supplemental grain on the stanchion when miking. No need to grain kids.

Also regarding copper, could I do an annual bolus preemptively or will it be harmful if not needed?

Instead of more pricey goat grain, you can feed cow grain used for milking cows. It will have plenty of copper in it because cows need more copper. You might not need extra copper depending on the amount in the hay. Check with the local goatbreeders about the copper in the area.

About 25 years ago in our area there was this rush to copper bolus every goat because of a copper deficiency scare. Any problem was assumed to be copper deficiency, but we have plenty of copper in our soil and thus in our hay. Check the soil in your area - you can have it tested at your County
Extension office. While a lack of copper and/or selenium is a problem, too much can be just as bad. Be sure you need it before you dose.

You are going to have to have at least 2 different "pens" at least for part of their lives...

Absolutely true! Goats are like that potato chip - you can't have just one. Dairy goats in particular are so lovable and sweet that you will enjoy keeping the doe kids. The buck kids can be sold for meat, or put in your own freezer. Personally, I prefer to sell for meat not pets since the buyers will come back to buy more. Selling as pets often backfires. The buyer often gets tired of the animal and wants you to take it back. DON'T DO THIS. The healthy kids you sold come back with hoof problems, worms, and often pick up diseases elsewhere. I make it a rule that I take nothing back on the property once it leaves since I have no control over how it is fed, housed, or taken care of.

One notable time the buyer wanted me to take back the animal because they "ran out of weeds in their yard". This after having been given an instruction sheet clearing stating that hay must always be available. The buyer was quite aggressive about me not only taking the animal back BUT wanting a full refund of the price they paid, an additional amount for the feed they had bought AND THE COST OF A COLLAR AND LEASH!

You also will get tired of people mistreating the animals and returning them in almost dead condition, or killing them accidentally and wanting to get a replacement.

Beware of pet buyers. It is kinder to sell for meat.

 

[dairydreams]

Thanks Ridgetop, that is something I didn't consider (the troubles of selling kids). I did think about having trouble selling them (with there being somewhat of a surplus of goats all the time here, it seems!)...but Goodness, I have enough trouble with trying to give things away on Free cycle! I don't enjoy dealing with humans too much, haha. Honestly meat for our own consumption is the most likely outcome of the guys (sorry!), but certainly I'll still have kids to sell. Thank you for giving me something else to think about.

And yes with the boys/kids I'll likely give them one of the 3 paddocks. Pallet wood is so stinkin' easy to get around here, I'm hoping to get a pallet house built for each paddock (even though I intend to give them access to the main holding area at all times). Not just to hang out under but to climb on. Then I can put them in any paddock when I need to clean the main living space/shelter, or separate as needed.

I do have another spot across the property for quarantine if needed. It's where we were originally going to put them before we decided the other spot next to our garage (where the stanchion will go) made more sense.

@Ridgetop That is absolutely absurd that someone would want a refund of the animal plus everything else!! Do you sell with a contract now?

 

[dairydreams]

also with the hermaphrodite polled goats -- this is when you breed a polled to another polled, is that correct? Or can it happen regardless?

 

[Alaskan]

but I have had a couple of owners tell me to avoid horns if at all possible, especially with (human) kids around

I guess I am in the minority.

I have no issues with a milk goat with horns.

i had one horned doe, my Saanen, the rest had been disbudded. With kids, i only bothered to disbud females... males were eaten before they got all that big.

So... 1 horned doe, the rest without horns. They got along fine, and I didn't have an issue with the horned doe and my human children. Goats are smart, and learn easily. They need to be trained to behave. We had more issues with our mini-saanen... she was cute, so the kids weren't as strict with her...

The nice things about horns are that in a hot climate they help the goat cool down.

Also, horns give the goat at least a tiny bit of help with predators.

of my tiny herd, only the one with horns would stand off to stray dogs.

also... those horns had no issues with my milk stanchion, and never got caught in anything.

Is there a universal hay I can feed to bred/lactating does and non-lactating? Is alfalfa too much for doelings?

whatever you have that is local and at least decent quality. I wouldn't ever feed alfalfa... but then I live where all alfalfa has to be shipped in....

Can I put out free choice hay for everyone and just supplement lactating does on the stanchion?

yes, you should have hay out at all times.

Trying to make a hay feeder where they do NOT waste hay, and do not get caught up in the feeder... fun challenge.

But... the pulled out wasted hay works as bedding. Eh...

As to feeding ... yes, feed them on the stanchion, it is good practice for them. Also... I always had collars on mine, and then when needed I could clip them to leads tied to the fence. Then, you can feed them that way, or just check them all over, do their feet... whatever.

Also regarding copper, could I do an annual bolus preemptively or will it be harmful if not needed?

First find out if your area is low in copper.

You might be just fine. And copper deficiency is pretty clear. You can Google pictures to get an idea of what to look for.

IF your area is low in copper, then I would suggest you look at photos of copper deficiency, so you get an idea... then wait until signs show up... give them a pill... then wait again for signs to show up... and THEN you can do it by the calendar.

Because, even if your area is low... depending on how much mineral they are eating, how well they are absorbing the minerals... Yada Yada yada... maybe they will need a copper pill once a year, or once every 4 months.

About how long would a 25lb bag of loose minerals last?

No way to know. Some animals are super picky, and some aren't....

Sprinkle baking soda on food or feed free choice?

There has been so much flack over the baking soda thing!!!!

I no longer have any idea what the truth of it all might be!

But... I wouldn't sprinkle it over anything.

Feed it free choice.

I had a free choice mineral feeder.

One for loose minerals, one for baking soda, and on occasion I would add kelp meal free choice.

 

[Alaskan]

Oh... in a supply list, I forgot to mention stuff for their feet.

I have VERY few rocks on my place, so goats needed a hoof trim about every 6 weeks.

Clippers and rasp and pick worked best for us.

 

[Ridgetop]

There are very few naturally polled goats. Polling and hermaphrodites are a recessive thing. The hermaphrodites I saw were disbudded and were very unusual. I bred hundreds of goats and only saw 2 in 20 years, including goats owned by other 4-H project kids.

As to disbudding, we would disbud the first few buck kids first to get back in the feel of it. Later when we were breeding 20-30 goats and having 40-100 kids (our Nubians were notorious for quads) we only disbudded the doe kids. The bucks were sold early - around 2 months old. We needed the milk to raise our bull calves for hay money. Back then the calves brought more money. Now goats are selling higher so you might want to keep the buck kids on milk to 3 or 4 months if you have milk to spare and depending on the price of hay.

 

[dairydreams]

ok another question (below the rant)....
I am spooked by all the medical stuff. I obviously want to be prepared, I try to deal with many things myself first before going to "experts" especially with my animals....but I am so afraid I'm about to sign up for a bunch of dead goats and vet bills! I've read so many horror stories and I'm just terrified I'm about to do the equivalent of being "house poor" but with goats.

So the question is, how often do you all encounter problems with your goats and how many goats are you keeping? I imagine the amount of medical situations increases with the amount of goats. And by "problems" I don't mean minor things like wounds, I mean things that require attention of a vet or a perscription, for example.