Questions about milk & cream
- Thread starter dairydreams
- Start date
Baymule
Herd Master
Nope, just me with a twist of humor.
Ridgetop
Herd Master
@questions about . . . . - you don't say what dimensions of barn you are considering. Or rather what dimensions you can afford to put up. Without those dimensions it is hard to advise you on what you can fit inside.
Overhangs can be installed for feeding. That way you can feed from your dry hay stockpile inside the barn and the animals can eat from outside while under cover. This is best because you won't have to let them into the barn to eat during nice weather. Remember that you will have to clean any animal areas so the less time they spend in the barn lined up at a feeder the better. They will pee and poop while eating so better to do it outside the barn where you can tractor or rake and shovel it away more easily. If you can plan an area for a compost pile where the poop and bedding can be dumped it will eventually break down into good garden compost. You will need to toss it to aerate it every week, but of you have a small garden tractor that should be easy.
Whatever you are planning - if possible, double the size. You are in Virginia where the humidity is bad so you will need some air circulation around your hay. In drier areas you might consider a large Connex container for hay storage. They work great in California but in Texas they don't. The climate of your area will determine what you need for hay storage and barn space. A covered barn with a large permanent covered loafing area for the goats in winter rain and snow is necessary (also gives a shady spot in summer). You will need confined areas for the does when kidding. Depending on whether you opt for doe raised or bottle raised kids, those areas can be used just to kid out the does before separating the kids into a kid pen and putting the doe into the milking herd, or to hold a doe and several kids together for several weeks. Movable panels to make kidding pens, and for holding bottle kids is good. The moveable panels give you more options in layout since your needs will change over time. You can make the panels yourself from wood, or wire on pipe. The panels can be bolted together, or wired together. Portable panels have the added benefit that they can be taken apart and stored when not in use.
Whatever you put up, make sure you have electricity and water. Lanterns are cute but flipping a switch is easier and provides better lighting. You will need a couple battery lanterns in case of power failures. Having a water source in the barn makes it easier to water the animals and for cleaning up. Milking and kidding can be messy. You don't want to have to run back to the house for a bucket of water in the middle of something. Since you will be milking your goats, you will need a covered area large enough for the stanchions with room to walk around them from side to side. You will be using them to trim hooves and to do some udder clipping depending on breed of goats.
We are in southern California. Our current barn is 24 x 36. It is recessed 4' below the grade of the driveway, the next level down is another 6', then another couple feet to the rear slope into the gully. We are on very steep ground. We built the barn with a loft where we stored sack feed and hay but had to remove it because the horizontal timbers began to crack from the weight. In that 24' x 36' barn we have an area 10' x 24' at the end. Since we no longer have dairy goats but White Dorper sheep now, this 24' wide area is divided with a creep panel to allow for a 10' x 10' creep pen for the lambs. The entire 10' x 24' opens out onto the rear hillside on the 10' end. 24' of the 36' is enclosed by the upper 4' of the 10' x 24' block building that at one time was used for a milk shed and hay storage. The other side and end of the barn is enclosed by a block retaining wall for the upper driveway. This was the only flat area on our property where a barn could be built when we moved here before we purchased the adjacent 4.5 acres.
This barn is too small. When we were milking dairy goats, the hay had to be dragged down into the "milk shed" to store, and carried up to the barn to be fed to the dairy does. We had 2 homemade double wooden stanchions set up at one end for milking. Towards the end of our dairy keeping we milked about 12-18 does am and pm year round by machine. We put 4 in the stanchions, the machine milked 2 at a time, and we stripped by hand. Across the path from the barn, we had an 8' x 12' wooden shed with a 30' x 20' yard for the young kids. They were fed with nipple buckets. Once they were about 4-6 months old they went in with the does. Since they were bottle/bucket fed from birth they did not nurse the dairy does. The barn was on one side of the house. We kept the bucks on the other side of the house.
Now we have only sheep so we store some hay in the barn where the milking area was. The main hay storage is in a 24' Connex storage container on the field. We can fit about 120+ bales in it, and 15-20 bales of 110 lb. alfalfa bales in the barn. In California we don't have any grazing except in the spring if we get heavy rain. Then we get weedy forage. We dry lot feed year-round. The 10' x 24' fenced area at the end of the barn is used for ewes and newborn lambs. We have portable panels which we set up for lambing pens during lambing in the main part of the barn. We don't have enough room to lamb the entire flock at once, so we breed all year round. When we wean the lambs, the ewes are removed and put back with the main flock on the field. We have several more fenced areas and temporary panel pens for rams and breeding flocks now that we have the extra 4.5 acres. Our property is fenced with 6'-7' wire on pipe.
When we move to Texas we have 6' wire fencing and a larger barn - 40' x 60'. It sounds large, but we will have to store some of our hay inside the barn. We won't be able to use a Connex storage container in Texas due to the heat and humidity. Although we have pastures and will do rotational grazing, the grass stops growing in the winter and we have to plan ahead and lay in enough hay. Most of the hay in round bales can sit outside if we are going to feed it that winter. Any other bales, and any alfalfa needs to be stacked and stored inside the barn. DH wants to put up a much larger open sided hay barn for hay storage and to park our vehicles in.
Remember when budgeting that you want to put up as large a barn as possible. Covered space is always valuable.
Overhangs can be installed for feeding. That way you can feed from your dry hay stockpile inside the barn and the animals can eat from outside while under cover. This is best because you won't have to let them into the barn to eat during nice weather. Remember that you will have to clean any animal areas so the less time they spend in the barn lined up at a feeder the better. They will pee and poop while eating so better to do it outside the barn where you can tractor or rake and shovel it away more easily. If you can plan an area for a compost pile where the poop and bedding can be dumped it will eventually break down into good garden compost. You will need to toss it to aerate it every week, but of you have a small garden tractor that should be easy.
Whatever you are planning - if possible, double the size. You are in Virginia where the humidity is bad so you will need some air circulation around your hay. In drier areas you might consider a large Connex container for hay storage. They work great in California but in Texas they don't. The climate of your area will determine what you need for hay storage and barn space. A covered barn with a large permanent covered loafing area for the goats in winter rain and snow is necessary (also gives a shady spot in summer). You will need confined areas for the does when kidding. Depending on whether you opt for doe raised or bottle raised kids, those areas can be used just to kid out the does before separating the kids into a kid pen and putting the doe into the milking herd, or to hold a doe and several kids together for several weeks. Movable panels to make kidding pens, and for holding bottle kids is good. The moveable panels give you more options in layout since your needs will change over time. You can make the panels yourself from wood, or wire on pipe. The panels can be bolted together, or wired together. Portable panels have the added benefit that they can be taken apart and stored when not in use.
Whatever you put up, make sure you have electricity and water. Lanterns are cute but flipping a switch is easier and provides better lighting. You will need a couple battery lanterns in case of power failures. Having a water source in the barn makes it easier to water the animals and for cleaning up. Milking and kidding can be messy. You don't want to have to run back to the house for a bucket of water in the middle of something. Since you will be milking your goats, you will need a covered area large enough for the stanchions with room to walk around them from side to side. You will be using them to trim hooves and to do some udder clipping depending on breed of goats.
We are in southern California. Our current barn is 24 x 36. It is recessed 4' below the grade of the driveway, the next level down is another 6', then another couple feet to the rear slope into the gully. We are on very steep ground. We built the barn with a loft where we stored sack feed and hay but had to remove it because the horizontal timbers began to crack from the weight. In that 24' x 36' barn we have an area 10' x 24' at the end. Since we no longer have dairy goats but White Dorper sheep now, this 24' wide area is divided with a creep panel to allow for a 10' x 10' creep pen for the lambs. The entire 10' x 24' opens out onto the rear hillside on the 10' end. 24' of the 36' is enclosed by the upper 4' of the 10' x 24' block building that at one time was used for a milk shed and hay storage. The other side and end of the barn is enclosed by a block retaining wall for the upper driveway. This was the only flat area on our property where a barn could be built when we moved here before we purchased the adjacent 4.5 acres.
This barn is too small. When we were milking dairy goats, the hay had to be dragged down into the "milk shed" to store, and carried up to the barn to be fed to the dairy does. We had 2 homemade double wooden stanchions set up at one end for milking. Towards the end of our dairy keeping we milked about 12-18 does am and pm year round by machine. We put 4 in the stanchions, the machine milked 2 at a time, and we stripped by hand. Across the path from the barn, we had an 8' x 12' wooden shed with a 30' x 20' yard for the young kids. They were fed with nipple buckets. Once they were about 4-6 months old they went in with the does. Since they were bottle/bucket fed from birth they did not nurse the dairy does. The barn was on one side of the house. We kept the bucks on the other side of the house.
Now we have only sheep so we store some hay in the barn where the milking area was. The main hay storage is in a 24' Connex storage container on the field. We can fit about 120+ bales in it, and 15-20 bales of 110 lb. alfalfa bales in the barn. In California we don't have any grazing except in the spring if we get heavy rain. Then we get weedy forage. We dry lot feed year-round. The 10' x 24' fenced area at the end of the barn is used for ewes and newborn lambs. We have portable panels which we set up for lambing pens during lambing in the main part of the barn. We don't have enough room to lamb the entire flock at once, so we breed all year round. When we wean the lambs, the ewes are removed and put back with the main flock on the field. We have several more fenced areas and temporary panel pens for rams and breeding flocks now that we have the extra 4.5 acres. Our property is fenced with 6'-7' wire on pipe.
When we move to Texas we have 6' wire fencing and a larger barn - 40' x 60'. It sounds large, but we will have to store some of our hay inside the barn. We won't be able to use a Connex storage container in Texas due to the heat and humidity. Although we have pastures and will do rotational grazing, the grass stops growing in the winter and we have to plan ahead and lay in enough hay. Most of the hay in round bales can sit outside if we are going to feed it that winter. Any other bales, and any alfalfa needs to be stacked and stored inside the barn. DH wants to put up a much larger open sided hay barn for hay storage and to park our vehicles in.
Remember when budgeting that you want to put up as large a barn as possible. Covered space is always valuable.
- Thread starter
- #94
dairydreams
Overrun with beasties
So after walking around our property where we’re thinking of putting the barn, what we’re tentatively planning is a 12ftx18ft barn with four 6x4 foot stalls (with modular/removable walls between them). The plan is to have a door on either end. It will open to a 50ftX50ft fenced in area. I’ll try to get a sketch up here but hopefully that makes enough sense to use your imagination…we only “intend” to have 2-3 goats full time with only 1-2 in milk at a time (yeah I know, we’ll see…haha). The barn location is about 25 yards or less from the garage where the stanchion will be set up. There is access to water and electricity from the garage, although obviously we’ll have to run an extension cord & hose to get it to the barn. The convenience of the garage is it is attached to our basement kitchen where I can immediately deal with the milk. (The basement kitchen is about to be converted to our canning/dehydrating/dairy kitchen).
Hay storage is in debate currently. I want to extend the barn 6 feet and have a whole space to store a round bale or two, but hubby is convinced we can throw a round bale on a pallet in the driveway and tarp it, no actual walled area or structure in needed. What is the easiest way to store a round bale if you don’t have a large enough space?
Lastly I had to share this article I was reading when I was looking up ideas for goat shelters hahahha
Just imagine the horror of the poor neighbors below the person keeping goats on their balcony lol
Hay storage is in debate currently. I want to extend the barn 6 feet and have a whole space to store a round bale or two, but hubby is convinced we can throw a round bale on a pallet in the driveway and tarp it, no actual walled area or structure in needed. What is the easiest way to store a round bale if you don’t have a large enough space?
Lastly I had to share this article I was reading when I was looking up ideas for goat shelters hahahha
Just imagine the horror of the poor neighbors below the person keeping goats on their balcony lol
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Ridgetop
Herd Master
Ridgetop
Herd Master
Do you have to buy your hay in round bales? For just a couple goats, and since you are considering the mini sizes, it might be better to buy your hay in square bales. It would certainly be easier to store and move.
- Thread starter
- #97
dairydreams
Overrun with beasties
No, I don’t “have” to buy rounds and they aren’t my preference, but they are substantially cheaper. A stored round bale here is about $50. Square bales are about $7 each. If I buy in bulk I might be able to get that down to $5 or $6 a bale.
farmerjan
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What are the size of the round bales there, as opposed to the sq bales. If the round bale is 4x5 then it is about 800 lbs... if it is 5x5 or so then 1000 lbs... more or less... Most sq bales here are 50 lbs or so...all this depends on the baler and where the farmer has the tensions set for how tight and how big the bales are rolled or how big they are set on the sq baler also.
That means there are about 15 sq bales in a 4x5 roll... 15 x 50 lbs=750 lbs.... $7 x 15 =$105.
Are these round bales stored inside so there is not waste on the outside of the roll??? You will lose about 10-20% or at least 2 sq bales worth of hay on the outside "weathering" of the round bale.
We figure 20-23 sq bales per 5x5 round bale of hay... yes, have taken them apart and "sq baled" some rolls in the past that were stored inside. We also figure that there is about 3-5 "wasted bales " off a 5x5 or 5x6 roll of hay when they are stored outside... which most of ours are. Now, that "wasted hay" is added organic matter to our fields so not really wasted... but the food value is "wasted"...
Plus the ease of handling and storing makes a difference.
If you have much rain/snow there.... I am in Va also, then just covering it will cause you to have some waste no matter...
One other thing... round bales are made for the rain to "shed off the bale" when stored with the round side "up"... they are a real PITA to try to pull apart to feed... it is much easier to peel off hay to feed when they are stored on end... flat side up...BUT.... They will not shed any rain that way and so MUST be kept well covered or any rain will soak straight down into the hay and you will have alot more waste that way.
That means there are about 15 sq bales in a 4x5 roll... 15 x 50 lbs=750 lbs.... $7 x 15 =$105.
Are these round bales stored inside so there is not waste on the outside of the roll??? You will lose about 10-20% or at least 2 sq bales worth of hay on the outside "weathering" of the round bale.
We figure 20-23 sq bales per 5x5 round bale of hay... yes, have taken them apart and "sq baled" some rolls in the past that were stored inside. We also figure that there is about 3-5 "wasted bales " off a 5x5 or 5x6 roll of hay when they are stored outside... which most of ours are. Now, that "wasted hay" is added organic matter to our fields so not really wasted... but the food value is "wasted"...
Plus the ease of handling and storing makes a difference.
If you have much rain/snow there.... I am in Va also, then just covering it will cause you to have some waste no matter...
One other thing... round bales are made for the rain to "shed off the bale" when stored with the round side "up"... they are a real PITA to try to pull apart to feed... it is much easier to peel off hay to feed when they are stored on end... flat side up...BUT.... They will not shed any rain that way and so MUST be kept well covered or any rain will soak straight down into the hay and you will have alot more waste that way.
Baymule
Herd Master
A round bale stored outside with a tarp over it will still get wet and rot. Plus then you have to pull the hay and as it gets past the middle it gets harder to pull. Then the tarp slumps down and holds puddles of water, it will freeze. Snow, if any, will make it harder. Frozen tarp May break or tear. PITA
Make the barn bigger for hay storage.
12x18…….. where is the alley down the middle? How wide is it? You need an alley , it makes life easier. Can you back truck up to the barn to unload SQUARE BALES and feed? Is there a feed room? Where are you going to store feed? In the basement?
If starting small with plans to add on later, go wider. Once the width is set, it’s hard to add on that way. Length is easier to add onto.
Make the barn bigger for hay storage.
12x18…….. where is the alley down the middle? How wide is it? You need an alley , it makes life easier. Can you back truck up to the barn to unload SQUARE BALES and feed? Is there a feed room? Where are you going to store feed? In the basement?
If starting small with plans to add on later, go wider. Once the width is set, it’s hard to add on that way. Length is easier to add onto.
Baymule
Herd Master
Also, raise the roof! If some day you get a tractor, you want to be able to drive the tractor in the barn, to scoop the poop with the front end bucket. That will allow you to do deep litter over the winter and clean it out in the spring.
Another consideration, you can come off the sides of the barn in a lean to fashion, to park the tractor out of the weather. You can add 20’ easily on both sides of the barn, 2x6’s come in 20’ lengths. LOL You can use one side as a day shelter for the goats, a place to hang out to get out of the heat or rain. Then they aren’t pooping in the barn as much.
So figure your height so the outside wall of your future lean to is no less than 8 feet tall, 10 feet would be better.
Condensation. I don’t know about there, but here, the underside of the metal roof, drips. Frost on top, as day warms, the roof in my shed drips. Same thing with ice, but more drips. My plans are to tear it down. Any barn or shed I build will have plywood decking, covered with underlayment paper like a house roof, with radiant heat barrier over that.
I’m about to build a 3 sided shelter, thinking 70’x 20’ with a small feed room in the middle, 10’x10’. The feed room will divide it, then I can house 2 groups of sheep. This will be in the front field. Then across the driveway, I’ll build another one.
Just throwing things out there for you to think about. Y’all are thinking on the here and now and that’s hard to plan for. The future needs are almost incomprehensible because you haven’t been there yet. You can build small for now. Just go taller and wider, you can add on later. Too narrow, too short, and you are stuck with something that isn’t suiting your needs anymore.
Another consideration, you can come off the sides of the barn in a lean to fashion, to park the tractor out of the weather. You can add 20’ easily on both sides of the barn, 2x6’s come in 20’ lengths. LOL You can use one side as a day shelter for the goats, a place to hang out to get out of the heat or rain. Then they aren’t pooping in the barn as much.
So figure your height so the outside wall of your future lean to is no less than 8 feet tall, 10 feet would be better.
Condensation. I don’t know about there, but here, the underside of the metal roof, drips. Frost on top, as day warms, the roof in my shed drips. Same thing with ice, but more drips. My plans are to tear it down. Any barn or shed I build will have plywood decking, covered with underlayment paper like a house roof, with radiant heat barrier over that.
I’m about to build a 3 sided shelter, thinking 70’x 20’ with a small feed room in the middle, 10’x10’. The feed room will divide it, then I can house 2 groups of sheep. This will be in the front field. Then across the driveway, I’ll build another one.
Just throwing things out there for you to think about. Y’all are thinking on the here and now and that’s hard to plan for. The future needs are almost incomprehensible because you haven’t been there yet. You can build small for now. Just go taller and wider, you can add on later. Too narrow, too short, and you are stuck with something that isn’t suiting your needs anymore.
