Quick and easy cattle panel hoola-hoop house

[soarwitheagles]

Beekissed,

Super nice pics of a super nice hoop house. Now I kinda wish I had built the style you and Babs have shown us here. Well, hopefully I learned my lesson and next time I can build the expresso version. We really did not need such a semi permanent version like I built...we needed something that would give 10+ pregnant ewes a dry place to drop and care for their lambs during the storms.

On the brighter side of things...the last 5 lambs were all born out in the rain during large rainstorms. Then, the mama ewes kept their lambs out in the rain for most of the time. I am beginning to wonder just how dangerous/risky it is to permit open field births when our weather is not as harsh as the northern climates...

I suppose that if I am to err, it is good to err on the cautious side. I still do not feel comfortable seeing all the sheep totally wet, soaked to the bone and drenched for days at a time. Maybe I need to get over thinking they need special care? But nearly every book I read stated the ewes and new born lambs need a warm, dry, sheltered area.

Here is a very strange fact: last year our herd had a warm, sheltered, dry, 5 star stable with hay bedding and all, yet we still lost two lambs to pneumonia and the flock had reoccurring upper respiratory infections that constantly required antibiotic injections. This year, the sheep will stay outside without shelter for days at a time in the wet, cold, windy, and at times freezing weather, and not one illness at all. How do I explain this? I have no clue at all. To me, this defies logic, medical science, and good reasoning. If anyone can explain to me how our flock is healthier without shelter, and while hanging out in long, prolonged, cold, and even violent storms, please do!

Scratching my head on this one...and if this type of strange stuff continues, I may not have any hair left at all!

 

[Baymule]

What about deer, feral hogs, wild horses, moose, antelope, bison and other wild animals? They stay outside all the time. The strong survive and it seems most survive. Then we think our animals must be coddled, put in barns, pens, pajamas, kept out of bad weather...... then we are aghast when they die--after ALL that special care! I guess we are killing them with kindness.

For your sheep, my best guess is that ammonia gave your lambs pneumonia and possibly going in and out of that nice, warm, dry, deep bedded barn into the cold was too much of a change for the rest of your flock. What do these huge sheep ranches with a thousand or more sheep do? It's not like they can put each ewe in a barn for her own protection......

My sheep currently have a 3 sided shelter that blocks the wind and rain, but it is not much more than that. So......do we baby them, hover over them, providing the highest level of care? Or do we let them choose where they want to lay down to sleep and rest, do we let them choose where to have their lambs and let the cards fall where they fall. Hard choice. I don't want to lose any lambs and I sure don't want to lose any ewes, but if we keep "helping" them, do we create a needy, can't take care of themselves or their lambs, flock of sheep?

I really want a hardy ewe that can take what Mother Nature flings at her, one that can give birth and raise twins and stay healthy. But if I see one having a hard time, I will pull out the stops to help her. If I had a ewe that continually presented breech and had to have help with birth, I would sell her and not keep any of her offspring.

 

[Baymule]

If anyone can explain to me how our flock is healthier without shelter, and while hanging out in long, prolonged, cold, and even violent storms, please do!

During hurricanes, direct hits, I gave my horses their choice of where they wanted to be. They had deep forest, creek bottom, a barn, or open field. They chose the open field, out in the driving rain, high winds and worst of the worst storm.

 

[Beekissed]

I've always heard that you don't try to keep sheep in a barn as the humidity levels in the barn, created by their collective bodies, can cause pneumonia. Sheep carry their barns on their backs and that wool is pretty waterproof and warm where it counts the most, so I can see with all clarity as to why they are healthier when born out in the weather than inside a barn in the same humid kind of weather. It's called fresh air!

 

[Bruce]

Along the lines of @Beekissed's thinking (and before I read her post) I was going to ask how big the 5 star stable was, how "closed" and how many animals? Maybe it is like a chicken coop with too many birds and too little ventilation? Sure way to kill your chickens with "kindness".

I'm not horse knowledgable but it isn't totally surprising that they would choose to be out in the hurricane. Open fields don't collapse on you, no trees to fall on you, you don't drown in a creek that becomes a torrent. Maybe they have some sense of the danger of "protective places".

 

[babsbag]

That is sad about the bees, not just for me, but mostly for them and you. I hate losing hives, those are 'my girls'. Let me know what you find out this week before I start pursuing other bees in earnest. Most of the nucs aren't ready until April and that is just too far away to do my orchard any good.

 

[soarwitheagles]

What about deer, feral hogs, wild horses, moose, antelope, bison and other wild animals? They stay outside all the time. The strong survive and it seems most survive. Then we think our animals must be coddled, put in barns, pens, pajamas, kept out of bad weather...... then we are aghast when they die--after ALL that special care! I guess we are killing them with kindness.

For your sheep, my best guess is that ammonia gave your lambs pneumonia and possibly going in and out of that nice, warm, dry, deep bedded barn into the cold was too much of a change for the rest of your flock. What do these huge sheep ranches with a thousand or more sheep do? It's not like they can put each ewe in a barn for her own protection......

My sheep currently have a 3 sided shelter that blocks the wind and rain, but it is not much more than that. So......do we baby them, hover over them, providing the highest level of care? Or do we let them choose where they want to lay down to sleep and rest, do we let them choose where to have their lambs and let the cards fall where they fall. Hard choice. I don't want to lose any lambs and I sure don't want to lose any ewes, but if we keep "helping" them, do we create a needy, can't take care of themselves or their lambs, flock of sheep?

I really want a hardy ewe that can take what Mother Nature flings at her, one that can give birth and raise twins and stay healthy. But if I see one having a hard time, I will pull out the stops to help her. If I had a ewe that continually presented breech and had to have help with birth, I would sell her and not keep any of her offspring.

Excellent reply Baymule! Now I am beginning to wish I had not spent so much time and money on building barns/stables/hoop houses...

I will be honest with you...after doing extensive reading and speaking with local ranchers, I would never even think of leaving our sheep outside without shelter. And now my paradigm is beginning to shift. I suppose it is also important to remember most of our flock are the American Blackbellies, often considered the lowest maintenance sheep on the planet.

Strange as it may sound, not even one sheep has gone into the hoop house yet...not even during our super strong wind and rains last night and today. My wife just called me over and showed me there were all the sheep, congregated under eucalyptus trees, resting and sleeping at 9:50 pm this evening. They really are more like a deer or antelope rather than like a sheep in many aspects I suppose.

I am beginning to feel as if I have been a worry wart and all for nothing!

Baymule, you have given many things to think about and ponder regarding providing shelter for our sheep. Thanks again.

I've always heard that you don't try to keep sheep in a barn as the humidity levels in the barn, created by their collective bodies, can cause pneumonia. Sheep carry their barns on their backs and that wool is pretty waterproof and warm where it counts the most, so I can see with all clarity as to why they are healthier when born out in the weather than inside a barn in the same humid kind of weather. It's called fresh air!

Good reply too. Yes, the AB's grow wool only during winter cold months and then shed it without shearing in the late spring. I have never seen a sheep shaking from the cold, but I have often seen the lambs shaking when wet and cold. Shaking is a sign that their bodies need more body heat...and they shake to generate the extra needed heat.

Along the lines of @Beekissed's thinking (and before I read her post) I was going to ask how big the 5 star stable was, how "closed" and how many animals? Maybe it is like a chicken coop with too many birds and too little ventilation? Sure way to kill your chickens with "kindness".

I'm not horse knowledgable but it isn't totally surprising that they would choose to be out in the hurricane. Open fields don't collapse on you, no trees to fall on you, you don't drown in a creek that becomes a torrent. Maybe they have some sense of the danger of "protective places".

Hi Bruce,

Our 5 star hotel is 20'x10'=200 sq. ft. and is three walls with ventilation too. It is not enclosed and I believe people call it an open shed.

We have anywhere from 10-20 sheep that will use this three wall barn like structure.

I am posting a chart that I have done my best to follow.

 

[babsbag]

Well your sheep are tougher than my goats for sure. One drop of rain and they head for the barn all the way screaming "I'm melting"; they are drama queens. In the summer they may sleep right outside the opening to the barn but in the winter they are in the barn pretty much 24/7.

 

[Beekissed]

Good reply too. Yes, the AB's grow wool only during winter cold months and then shed it without shearing in the late spring. I have never seen a sheep shaking from the cold, but I have often seen the lambs shaking when wet and cold. Shaking is a sign that their bodies need more body heat...and they shake to generate the extra needed heat.

By raising the hair breeds you have more flexibility as to when you have your lambs, so why not have them drop when it's warmer out? A good model to follow is to drop lambs when other ruminants in the wild are doing so...the graze is richer, so the milk is more rich for the lambs, one doesn't have to worry about cold weather being a problem, and you have to flush less when the pasture is more nutritious.

Salatin has done studies that show that calves and lambs born later in the year, in the spring months, grow quicker and make more weight gains than those born earlier in the year, so the extra months doesn't really give those early livestock births an edge at market time in the fall. There is also more profit in spring lambing as there are less losses due to the cold and wet found in earlier months.

I never have figured out why farmers want to have lambs and calves when the snow is still flying...it just doesn't make any sense in any way. It's hard on the mothers, on the babies and it's hard on the farmer and it decreases the total profit of it all, so why in the world do they do it?

 

[Beekissed]

What about deer, feral hogs, wild horses, moose, antelope, bison and other wild animals? They stay outside all the time. The strong survive and it seems most survive. Then we think our animals must be coddled, put in barns, pens, pajamas, kept out of bad weather...... then we are aghast when they die--after ALL that special care! I guess we are killing them with kindness.

For your sheep, my best guess is that ammonia gave your lambs pneumonia and possibly going in and out of that nice, warm, dry, deep bedded barn into the cold was too much of a change for the rest of your flock. What do these huge sheep ranches with a thousand or more sheep do? It's not like they can put each ewe in a barn for her own protection......

My sheep currently have a 3 sided shelter that blocks the wind and rain, but it is not much more than that. So......do we baby them, hover over them, providing the highest level of care? Or do we let them choose where they want to lay down to sleep and rest, do we let them choose where to have their lambs and let the cards fall where they fall. Hard choice. I don't want to lose any lambs and I sure don't want to lose any ewes, but if we keep "helping" them, do we create a needy, can't take care of themselves or their lambs, flock of sheep?

I really want a hardy ewe that can take what Mother Nature flings at her, one that can give birth and raise twins and stay healthy. But if I see one having a hard time, I will pull out the stops to help her. If I had a ewe that continually presented breech and had to have help with birth, I would sell her and not keep any of her offspring.

My sentiments exactly. The first ewe I had lambing on my place I hurried to put her in a lambing jug as I was told to do...the other sheep were very distressed over it and she didn't like being separated from them either. As soon as she had that lamb she was pacing to get OUT of there, so I let her out. After that I resolved to let them choose where to lamb....sheep been lambing outdoors since time began and they don't need to be babied around. Either they do well and live strong or they do poorly and die, but even if they needed too much assistance with lambing, I'd likely cull them, so either way I'd want the ones that lamb without extra help.