Quick question about LGD breeds

[Baymule]

100% what SBC said. You said something that gave me pause. You want her to go in a crate for a trip to the vet. These are not crate dogs. A crate would be a terrible insult. I have a 9 month old black Lab/Great Dane cross and he goes in a crate, it is his comfort spot. Someday he won't need it anymore, but for now he does. Putting a LGD in a crate would not bring the desired effect, it would hurt her feelings. When I take my dogs to the vet, they ride in the back seat. I put a blanket on the seat, it usually winds up in the floor, dog hair floats on the AC breeze and they drool. They are happy.

The best thing you could do is read this forum. Read the posts on the LGD forum, there is lots of information there.

These dogs are incredible animals. They work without supervision. They think for themselves, they really don't need us, and yet, they do.

Goatgurl touched on barking. When your dog is barking, she sees, hears or smells SOMETHING. Maybe you don't see, hear or smell anything, but to her, SOMETHING is there. Go to her, talk to her, praise her, tell her thank you for doing your job. Let her know that you are there for her. Our female GP barks at night because there is SOMETHING out there. It turned out a couple of years ago that a couple of doe deer stashed their fawns in the horse pasture that is heavily wooded. The does had the audacity to walk mere feet from the fence dividing the horse pasture from Paris Land. She barked at them. All. Night. I found their tracks, proof that Paris was on the job, protecting her sheep from deer monsters. I started going outside, sitting with her, praising her and telling her she was a good dog. It quieted her down-a little. She sure hated those deer!

Because we love that happy, adoring dog love, most of us, if not all of us also have house or farm dogs. We want that obedient dog that waits for us to command them to do something so they can show us how much they love us. And we love them madly for it.

LGDs love us, on their terms. LGDs love their work, they love their goats or sheep.

You need to "feel" your dog. It may sound silly, but instead of you wanting her to obey and mind you, you need to let it go and just let her into your heart. Sit in her work area, go walking with her, let her show you what she does. Praise her at every opportunity. If you think you are frustrated with her, think how frustrated she must be with you.

I hope you realize that we are trying to not only help you, but help your dog.

 

[Mike CHS]

LGDs love us, on their terms. LGDs love their work, they love their goats or sheep.

You need to "feel" your dog. It may sound silly, but instead of you wanting her to obey and mind you, you need to let it go and just let her into your heart. Sit in her work area, go walking with her, let her show you what she does. Praise her at every opportunity. If you think you are frustrated with her, think how frustrated she must be with you.

I hope you realize that we are trying to not only help you, but help your dog.

Of all of the posts, that one bears repeating. The key being to help your dog

 

[B&B Happy goats]

Hello Fred, having just adopted our dear LATESTARTERS Mel, I can attest to the posts above...we have two dogs....and we have a independent amazing creature named Mel....he is nonthing like a dog, spend time ...as much as you can daily with her walking your property, and with the goats ....when she barks...go listen and tell her good girl and pat and praise her...
Mel weighs 132 lbs, in our short time together we are forming a trust and bond....if you watch her, listen to her and praise her....she will become your heart and protector....she will show you the way, be her partner.... if i can do this with a four year old ,who has just had his world turned upside down, then have him nutered within two weeks, ....then your young girl will be amazing. You got the best advice above you could possibly get on the preceding posts.....enjoy your girl and good luck ,

 

[FRED DESANTIS]

Hi,
Thank you for taking the time to write such a great response. She does come when called seventy percent of the time. Sometimes I put her on a very long lead and we walk the whole property. When she has gotten out she came back on her own accord. I spend time with her and the goats and she does seem happier staying with the goats than being in the yard by the house. You have given me a lot to think about and I will be changing my approach.
Thanks again
Fred

But LGD's are not pet dogs. They have a very distinct purpose. Their job is a livestock guardian. They must be able to do their job, think quickly and make decisions faster than you can blink your eye. They are not obedience dogs, nor should they be and doing so and trying to make them what they are not is what will cause them to be unhappy and restless. They are not wired for this.
Whoever you got the dog from should have counseled you on the ways of an LGD.
They are not "dogs" as we think of dogs. They are a species unto themselves.

Most LGD's will not be enticed or bribed with treats. They are really better off not doing so.
Our neighbor tried making friends with our dogs as pups by trying to bribe with treats. He made a permanent enemy of every dog on the farm.... why... because the neighbor bypassed us. The dogs would have accepted him IF he had gone through us.

As a trainer of working dogs that are geared for obedience/protection/schutzhund I would never ever expect my German Shepherds to do my LGD's work just as I would never expect my LGD's to behave like my German Shepherd Dogs. Very different animals, with very different jobs.

Having her walk on a lead, load into a car is easy... but you have to change the way you approach a LGD.
Your LGD will and does sense your displeasure and frustration.
When you have the trust and respect of the dog they are actually quite willing to please... BUT ... trying to make them into something they were NOT bred for is only going to exacerbate the problems.

Praise her every day for the wonderful job she is doing. Tell her what a great dog she is.
Earn the respect of your LGD. They are smarter then we are.

The dog is not the one being the unwilling partner. I do not say that to be mean, it is simple fact that the shepherd MUST bond and respect the dog. Pets are taught to respect you and the person is master. LGD's are not wired as such... you are equal partners. When respect of the LGD is not given they are the most stubborn frustrating dogs in the world! LOL

 

[B&B Happy goats]

Mel comes seventy percent of the time also...they ARE independent creatures for sure, lol....and i have found that Mel enjoys walking with me on the fence lines ( unleashed) he seems to feel my trust in him when I do that three times a day....telling him what a good boy he is, and this is your area to protect...good luck Fred...the reward is well worth the effort

 

[FRED DESANTIS]

Hi Baymule,
The reason the whole crate thing came up is because the Texas coalition for the protection of animals has offered to give the dog all of it's shots and vaccinations along with spaying her for 100.00.You drop her off between 8 and 9 am and pick her up at three the ask that the dogs be crated because their facilities do not have a lot of cage capacity otherwise I would not even own a crate. Sometimes at night when she is barking I will go out and give her a bone and ask her what she's barking at.

100% what SBC said. You said something that gave me pause. You want her to go in a crate for a trip to the vet. These are not crate dogs. A crate would be a terrible insult. I have a 9 month old black Lab/Great Dane cross and he goes in a crate, it is his comfort spot. Someday he won't need it anymore, but for now he does. Putting a LGD in a crate would not bring the desired effect, it would hurt her feelings. When I take my dogs to the vet, they ride in the back seat. I put a blanket on the seat, it usually winds up in the floor, dog hair floats on the AC breeze and they drool. They are happy.

The best thing you could do is read this forum. Read the posts on the LGD forum, there is lots of information there.

These dogs are incredible animals. They work without supervision. They think for themselves, they really don't need us, and yet, they do.

Goatgurl touched on barking. When your dog is barking, she sees, hears or smells SOMETHING. Maybe you don't see, hear or smell anything, but to her, SOMETHING is there. Go to her, talk to her, praise her, tell her thank you for doing your job. Let her know that you are there for her. Our female GP barks at night because there is SOMETHING out there. It turned out a couple of years ago that a couple of doe deer stashed their fawns in the horse pasture that is heavily wooded. The does had the audacity to walk mere feet from the fence dividing the horse pasture from Paris Land. She barked at them. All. Night. I found their tracks, proof that Paris was on the job, protecting her sheep from deer monsters. I started going outside, sitting with her, praising her and telling her she was a good dog. It quieted her down-a little. She sure hated those deer!

Because we love that happy, adoring dog love, most of us, if not all of us also have house or farm dogs. We want that obedient dog that waits for us to command them to do something so they can show us how much they love us. And we love them madly for it.

LGDs love us, on their terms. LGDs love their work, they love their goats or sheep.

You need to "feel" your dog. It may sound silly, but instead of you wanting her to obey and mind you, you need to let it go and just let her into your heart. Sit in her work area, go walking with her, let her show you what she does. Praise her at every opportunity. If you think you are frustrated with her, think how frustrated she must be with you.

I hope you realize that we are trying to not only help you, but help your dog.

100% what SBC said. You said something that gave me pause. You want her to go in a crate for a trip to the vet. These are not crate dogs. A crate would be a terrible insult. I have a 9 month old black Lab/Great Dane cross and he goes in a crate, it is his comfort spot. Someday he won't need it anymore, but for now he does. Putting a LGD in a crate would not bring the desired effect, it would hurt her feelings. When I take my dogs to the vet, they ride in the back seat. I put a blanket on the seat, it usually winds up in the floor, dog hair floats on the AC breeze and they drool. They are happy.

The best thing you could do is read this forum. Read the posts on the LGD forum, there is lots of information there.

These dogs are incredible animals. They work without supervision. They think for themselves, they really don't need us, and yet, they do.

Goatgurl touched on barking. When your dog is barking, she sees, hears or smells SOMETHING. Maybe you don't see, hear or smell anything, but to her, SOMETHING is there. Go to her, talk to her, praise her, tell her thank you for doing your job. Let her know that you are there for her. Our female GP barks at night because there is SOMETHING out there. It turned out a couple of years ago that a couple of doe deer stashed their fawns in the horse pasture that is heavily wooded. The does had the audacity to walk mere feet from the fence dividing the horse pasture from Paris Land. She barked at them. All. Night. I found their tracks, proof that Paris was on the job, protecting her sheep from deer monsters. I started going outside, sitting with her, praising her and telling her she was a good dog. It quieted her down-a little. She sure hated those deer!

Because we love that happy, adoring dog love, most of us, if not all of us also have house or farm dogs. We want that obedient dog that waits for us to command them to do something so they can show us how much they love us. And we love them madly for it.

LGDs love us, on their terms. LGDs love their work, they love their goats or sheep.

You need to "feel" your dog. It may sound silly, but instead of you wanting her to obey and mind you, you need to let it go and just let her into your heart. Sit in her work area, go walking with her, let her show you what she does. Praise her at every opportunity. If you think you are frustrated with her, think how frustrated she must be with you.

I hope you realize that we are trying to not only help you, but help your dog.

 

[FRED DESANTIS]

Fred, I went back and read your post again and something stood out to me. You mentioned about the dog coming/or not when called. How much time do you spend wandering around with her while she is doing her job? She isn't seeing a partnership here. I spend hours every day with a new dog just roaming the territory with my dogs. It doesn't take a lot of that for them to see who is supporting the "job"

Hi Mike,
I was wondering when you spend hours a day roaming the territory is your dog on a lead, I would be afraid she may run off and get hit by a car I live out in the country but there is some traffic.
I have five and a half acres sometimes I will put her on a 20' lead and we will walk all over the property. she comes when she's called about 70 per cent of the time I can live with that.The reason the whole crate thing came up is because the Texas coalition for the protection of animals has offered to give the dog all of it's shots and vaccinations along with spaying her for 100.00.You drop her off between 8 and 9 am and pick her up at three the ask that the dogs be crated because their facilities do not have a lot of cage capacity otherwise I would not even own a crate. Sometimes at night when she is barking I will go out and give her a bone and ask her what she's barking at.

 

[FRED DESANTIS]

SBC is 100% correct!

Goatgurl also said that commands are a suggestion and she couldn’t be more right!

I’d learned with my first Pyr that you leave them and don’t interact with them. It felt wrong so I loved him. In turn, he loved me! This was his farm and he more than once protected me as well.

My Anatolian was an amazing girl! She was a heart dog and I miss her daily. DH would get so frustrated when she wouldn’t “listen.” I trusted her and she was protecting us from things we couldn’t see and/or hear. I’ve learned so much from SBC about these amazing dogs. I’ll have another or ten! Just have to get the timing right.

I will say that all of mine enjoyed attention. They could care less about treats. They thrived on physical affection. I spent time every day hugging on them and I’d sit with them flopped down in my lap. They love to be scratched right above their tail and between their front legs. You can win her over!

I will say that she may need a partner BUT she needs that connection with you first. Removing her from her animals is stressful for her. I know some vets do farm calls so that LGDs don’t even have to leave the farm at all.

Please keep us posted.

She does love those belly rubs I will go out after dinner to pick up her dish and she will roll right over on her back for a good belly rub and scratching she gets a lot of love. I am not indifferent to her.Thanks for all of your suggestions and comments.

 

[FRED DESANTIS]

hi fred, pretty girl you've got there. first you have to realize that a great pyrenees is not and will never be anything like a lab. come, sit, stay are all suggestions to a livestock guardian dog not a command. she will never act like an 'ordinary' dog because she isn't. she will not play fetch or any of the other things that your lab did. these dogs are not really treat oriented so you have to find something she really, really likes, think chicken or hot dogs or something like that. I understand the need for leash and crate training but don't make it an all important thing. they are laid back dogs that really only become alert and active when they persevere a threat. as far as her not eating well they don't eat a lot for dogs their size. maybe when you feed her she eats a little but just doesn't want the rest. if she doesn't do a lot then she won't eat a lot. go more by her condition than the amount she eats. I had an anatolian that drove me nuts because he didn't eat as much as I thought he should. as SBC said, you have to make them partners its not a master/dog kinda thing. does she stay with your goats? is she happy there? my LGD's wouldn't come in my house unless I dragged them and it would be a real struggle. they don't want to be in my yard they want to be with their livestock. does she bark at threats? do you go out to be her back up and see what she barks at? do you sit with her and her goats? these are the things that make a partner. she has to know she can count on you just like you have to know you can count on her. I hope you both can work thru the problems youall are having and she becomes the best guardian she can be. she will be happier if you don't try to make a yard dog out of her.

Hi Goatgurl,
Thanks for all the good advice. I didn't realise they don't eat a lot for their size I thought she just didn't like the food. She does seem to like being with the goats as opposed to being in the yard by the house I just figured she might like a break from being with the goats all the time so I brought her over to the house yard for awhile. thanks again.

 

[Mike CHS]

I have them on lead when I walk them out of the pastures but never use leads inside the paddocks. I get you on the crate situation and sometime you have to do less than ideal things.