rachels.haven's Journal

[rachels.haven]

What is “a novel wormer”?

New and unused here before. In this case, it was a horse wormer that I don't usually use and probably won't again for a long time.

 

[SageHill]

I wish. She got mad that I didn't "trust" her after I asked. (...Uh, no? I've already been bitten once this year! and technically she wouldn't know if they had it or not either if no tests were done)

I actually might have a solution to my small genes problem in the wings. Maybe.

Woah - she got mad?? Definitely a big warning flag. Fingers crossed for your solution!

 

[Mini Horses]

No need for her to be offended...first, never tested for CL, so a free "find out". She had tested for other, closed herd, so I'd say test away!

When I was selling minis, all were DNAd. It never bothered me if a buyer wanted to retest! Back when Boer were 10k, heck yeah, test away

 

[Ridgetop]

technically she wouldn't know if they had it or not either if no tests were done

The positive test for CL just shows that the animal was exposed to the disease, not that they have active cases. Abscesses in lymph node sites are active cases and animals should be disposed of. All animals vaccinated for CL will show the animal to be positive for CL from the vaccine on future tests. The test is only testing for antibodies against CL. It doesn't mean active cases.

 

[rachels.haven]

The positive test for CL just shows that the animal was exposed to the disease, not that they have active cases. Abscesses in lymph node sites are active cases and animals should be disposed of. All animals vaccinated for CL will show the animal to be positive for CL from the vaccine on future tests. The test is only testing for antibodies against CL. It doesn't mean active cases.

Yeah, but my concern is that from what I hear you can have an active, open abscess case suddenly happen quickly from what I hear, so I'm hesitant to even risk bringing untested goats onto the property. This area has always had a HUGE number of filth flies (like, a traumatize you, kind of number), even when I was here as a little kid and we had no animals near the house, so all the pieces are in place for good transmission if I set the stage unintentionally.

Oh, btw, my friend working through a positive sent her vial to waddl for their special test (a "SHI" test? not joking) with a couple of controls and a re-test instead of a state or budget lab and they were all negative by waddl, so she's past her issue now. It sounds like she's going to be using waddl for now on-it's $30/full screening though. I thought $20/full screen was a lot, but I guess she is established in the area and capitalizes on her minis and sells bucklings alone for $500 a piece so her world is a little different than mine.

 

[Ridgetop]

it's $30/full screening though. I thought $20/full screen was a lot

Depends on how important the testing is to you. Once you test, unless an animal throws out an abscess in a lymph node area, and you operate a closed herd, you should be safe. BUT if you import bucks or does, or even semen, it can sneak in. We used to simply remove any got with a lump and take it to the auction immediately. That was 30 year ago.

 

[farmerjan]

I don't know all the ins and outs of goats and this CL stuff... but I can tell you that any animals that are vaccinated for "Bangs" will always show a positive in a blood test afterwards... so if the animal is negative with a test, then you vaccinate, from what @Ridgetop says, it will always show a positive for CL....
One thing I do not understand is if it is bacterial caused, why it cannot be "irradicated" in an animal through antibiotic treatment.
All I understand is that it is of a big concern to many and I admire your being adamant to not bring animals into the property if you can possibly avoid it.

 

[rachels.haven]

Not farm related: (a pic I made for 3 year old Shaun) I took adulting to a new level yesterday. Problem is, uptightness almost made it a major event. We live on a road used to get to the garbage transfer stations. It's normal to have trash in the road. On Thursday I was getting back on my own from a lunch outing and there was a small board in the road. I couldn't get out of the way in time and I hit it. As I hit it I saw a long nail sticking out of it. By the time I got home two tires were visbly losing pressure. By 2 when I go to pick up kids the front tire was a pancake so I had to take DH's beat up man mobile (left).

So after work I decided we were going to fill up the tires and drive quickly to a tire place. Mark picked walmart (7 minutes down the dirty road) there's also a firestone (12 minutes away). And he took over, which at the time I didn't care about. So HE pumped up the tire, ran the battery down with the plug in cig lighter pump, charged the battery plug in style in the garage, let the tire with the bigger hole sit for 10 minutes while he did it and THEN drove like wildfire to walmart and rolled in just as it started "vibrating" he says...and I followed left far behind in the man mobile. (ARGH, when executing my risky, hairbrained schemes you have to be exact!!! even when being a nervous nelly!!!) He's lucky he didn't have to stop and repump it in the dark. It's time to pick up the van now.

Hopefully it will be a more boring ride home.

The van is not impressed.

I don't know all the ins and outs of goats and this CL stuff... but I can tell you that any animals that are vaccinated for "Bangs" will always show a positive in a blood test afterwards... so if the animal is negative with a test, then you vaccinate, from what @Ridgetop says, it will always show a positive for CL....
One thing I do not understand is if it is bacterial caused, why it cannot be "irradicated" in an animal through antibiotic treatment.
All I understand is that it is of a big concern to many and I admire your being adamant to not bring animals into the property if you can possibly avoid it.

I didn't know that about bangs. Yes, when goats are vaccinated for CL they test positive, but most people don't vaccinate for it unless they are trying to work through having it and the vaccine just suppresses abscesses and doesn't prevent them from contracting the bacteria, also, I think the vaccine for goats keeps getting taken off the market due to lack of demand so I don't know if you can vaccinate for it as often as the vaccine requires for abscess suppression. I think there are anecdotal cases where they lose "positiveness" on the test if years pass after last vaccines and they don't have it and don't get exposed, but I haven't seen much on that. Just someone on a forum who worked through their own outbreak.

I wish we could anti-biotic it away, but I think part of the problem is that the sheep/goat will try to isolate the bacteria away in lymph nodes, for example, and it can't cause the animal as much of a problem BUT it's not as accessible to drugs (and then it will abscess out the skin and get rid of a lot of the infection into the environment and spread it and continue the cycle).

Thanks for your support. I'm already on CAE prevention until at least March 2025. I don't want to add working through CL to that. That might be too much for me to manage all at once.

 

[Ridgetop]

also, I think the vaccine for goats keeps getting taken off the market due to lack of demand so I don't know if you can vaccinate for it as often as the vaccine requires for abscess suppression.

WAADL is recommending not to vaccinate goats for CL. The vaccine manufacturers are also no longer recommending it for goats. It is not very effective on goats from what I understand, and they may have found other problems with it when vaccinating goats. In England and Europe, they have a different CL vaccination. They are also marketing a potential cure for it which is not approved for the US yet.

Isolating infected animals; lancing, draining, and treating the abscesses with antibiotics is still the only way to treat infected animals. Some animals do not ever get it regardless of exposure. Removing animals from the flock that have abscesses can limit the exposure of the rest of the flock. Infection of humans is almost unknown.

 

[rachels.haven]

WAADL is recommending not to vaccinate goats for CL. The vaccine manufacturers are also no longer recommending it for goats. It is not very effective on goats from what I understand, and they may have found other problems with it when vaccinating goats. In England and Europe, they have a different CL vaccination. They are also marketing a potential cure for it which is not approved for the US yet.

Isolating infected animals; lancing, draining, and treating the abscesses with antibiotics is still the only way to treat infected animals. Some animals do not ever get it regardless of exposure. Removing animals from the flock that have abscesses can limit the exposure of the rest of the flock. Infection of humans is almost unknown.

I'd be interested in hearing about that cure someday even if it's not US available/approved. The science would be interesting. It would also be amazing if someday it was commonplace and the disease could be treated away. (and yes, there are only a handful of human cases, but I don't want to be that one. I've been the "lucky" one enough in life with weird medical reactions and stuff-that or one of my menfolk would get it. I'll keep that door shut the best that I can.)