rachels.haven's Journal

[Bruce]

Assuming, unlike my DW, everyone in the family can sleep through the normal warning off barks, my bet is life will be easier. You won't be worrying about those predators any more. Most with LGDs say they sleep better at night knowing the dog(s) are on duty and can tell the warning bark from the "I need back up" bark in their sleep. What price is the dog (if it isn't too rude to ask).

I would disagree totally with the idea that cattle panels are easier on up and down land. They don't flex up and down so unless you plan to trench the high spots, you are going to potentially have some big gaps under them. And a fox can dance right through them with inches to spare. So can the chickens. They are nice in that you can do corners without the need for braced posts though.

Now about those "serious posts". How rocky/ledgy is your property? You don't NEED a machine to dig a post hole (other than a manual post hole digger). Once the holes are dug, putting together an H brace or corner brace is really quite simple.

 

[rachels.haven]

The ground was rocky enough to bend (or split the top of) a lot of T posts when I pounded them in and I had to move where I put some posts all together when there were surface rocks that I could not dig out. We have rock walls all over the property, so things did get rock picked once long ago, but it probably needs to be done again. The dirt also has a lot of gravel according to the tours of the soil enjoyed while I dug holes for the fig, a couple of blueberries, and three grapes. I think once the posts are in they will be solidly in for a long time. Soil also drains very well. My blueberries, grapes, and figs will be happy with that, and the posts may not rot out as quickly.

I'll try to go out and take pictures of areas where I can't picture stretched fencing working tomorrow. Next year I may get someone out to do the posts and just try stretching some fence.

Husband has kindly asked me to hold off on the dog and not do things while I'm afraid. He'd also accept it if he came home to the dog being here as long as she was on my plate and not his, so to speak which is how our relationship works. But I'll hold off. Although if I lose a goat to a coyote or another thing he may come home to one.

 

[B&B Happy goats]

So sorry, ...you may be missing out on the love of your life dog
The fake cameras have blinking lights to "show" they are on ...and are two in a package, and four were under $40.00 ....sure makes someone think twice about tresspassing ....

 

[rachels.haven]

Yes, sometimes the best things in life come suddenly...although my husband doesn't want 135 pounds of dog coming home suddenly if he has a choice.
We'll get a LGD eventually, I think. I'm just hoping we don't lose anything before then. Or if we get a puppy, I hope it doesn't escape and get eaten. The purpose of the post I put up on FB was info gathering, and minus the rude lady, it did let me gather info. It sounds like at least a 3 acre pen is preferable, but someone can and DOES keep LGD's and goats in a quarter acre pen without a problem and he did not mention electric-THREE OF THEM. A quarter acre seems like plenty of space for the goats right now. They do not like to roam much. They like to eat and lay down (and in the evenings when it's cool they like to butt heads and dance ). The next quarter acre can be for extra insurance for the dog if that's what we wind up fencing next.

...although yeah, I'll be pretty frustrated in his direction if I turn this down and a goat gets killed, or say a bear breaks into my coop or barn and starts injuring and destroying things because there's no barking deterrent. I still have this haunting feeling that the only way we're going to keep the coyotes, and bears (who crushed a bunch of bird feeders for the last guy here and compelled him to put up bear bars on some windows of the barn), and bobcats, and hawks, and fishers and weasels and mink and foxes away from us and our stock is with a dog, especially since we're not gun people and I don't have time to hunt. That dog may not have been the right dog at the right time, but I think we have an outside working dog in our future for my peace of mind. I'd like my other half to be okay with it first though. It makes things easier when said disagreed about animal causes trouble during the adjustment period, which I feel like is unavoidable to some degree with just about every animal you get. Plus, I like DH.

 

[Bruce]

The "other half" does have to be in agreement. Don't know if another already trained dog will come along again in the future.

We have rock walls all over the property, so things did get rock picked once long ago, but it probably needs to be done again.

That does make it a lot harder, guess you are similar to here. New rocks "grow" every year. Most likely they are slowly pushed up in the annual freeze thaw cycles.

I had to move some T-posts from their planned location due to rocks, not too big a deal with stretched fencing since the distance between posts isn't hard and fast. And, sadly, I had to dig 3 new holes for a H brace and gate strike post (6") after I had two dug and on the 3rd hit a rock 2' down so big I could not dig out by hand. I have a tractor with a backhoe now and if I had had it then, I might have been able to dig the rock out. And I have a corner post that I had to use cement with because I hit ledge 2.5' down. No moving "just a bit" to get around that! And it has floating braces instead of being H braced, no way to get the other posts in. Quite disappointing because I wanted to put a gate in that area. Would have been convenient for getting out to the field. Similar problem up near the barn where I wanted to put a gate. Nope, ledge and water 1 to 1.5' down.

 

[B&B Happy goats]

Seriously I am not trying to be pushing you at all, but the offer of a LGD that is trained and with animals currently is a gift that may never come your way again.......ever.... And training a puppy to do its job takes several years to train, feed, house break , bond with...... to be capable of taking care of the problems you are currently having now. The solution is almost in your hands......it has been offered.......JUMP on it ...

I didn't have much of a animal predator problem as I had a human criminal problem, Mel is a LGD, but was raised a bit more as a companion dog than a full LGD......I pitty the idiot that would try to tresspass here, or the predator that goes after my goats...Mel makes us feel safer than any gun that we have in our home.....the trip to Texas was a small price to pay for such a great creature...If I had known that any animal could do as much for us as Mel has, I would drive ANYWHERE in the USA to go get him.
I promise I won't post any thing else about getting that dog, just felt that I really needed to let you both know what a life changer getting this breed of magnificent creature has made for our little place and our personal safety Barbara and Leon.....and....

 

[rachels.haven]

Ouch @Bruce , my arms ache for you. I don't think our properties are so different geologically speaking. Mines just covered in trees, which is nice for goats. I've realized that I will either need heavy equipment or will need to do things very slowly and work HARD and be flexible.

I'll keep talking to DH about the dog. I'm personally worried that we won't be able to contain her while she adjusts to thinking this property is hers and she'll get killed.

My husband on the other hand...at one point we had a mini poodle for 18 months that we wound up with who was obviously a puppy mill dog and totally vicious and neurotic with very disturbing quirks-ate dirt until she got very ill on a regular basis unless I prevented it by keeping her on pavement, peed and pooed only in her water dishes, every single one, attacked stairs like a demon, randomly attacked people, 4 luxating patellas, had a crooked back, and drew blood regularly on a daily basis until she went after one of my 4 month old human babies immobile on the ground and I got rid of her. He is afraid of another Melody, especially a big one. I used to obedience train dogs for the local country animal shelter as a kid and loved it, but this dog was like nothing I'd ever dealt with before and didn't seem to have all the lights on in the attic, so I could dismiss it as a bad individual with bad breeding but that was my husband's only close experience with dogs period and that is why he is reluctant say yes. So I have a lot to talk through with him. And it might take losing a goat or having the barn or chicken coop smashed in. I just hope it's not one of my favorite goats.

 

[Bruce]

IMHO, the little ones are more likely to be neurotic, call it the small dog syndrome. I agree with @B&B Happy goats's post, almost wrote the same thing earlier. Finding a trained LGD is GOLD. Finding one TWICE? I don't think the odds are good.

We all believe DH to be a smart man and will understand that not all dogs are created equal. You should go meet this dog and see its personality. A well adjusted LGD will accept whoever their owner brings to them but it is unwise for an unknown person to approach them without the owner present. They are working dogs and protecting their property is their job. A Great Pyrenees is the polar opposite of an 8 pound nutjob. In my experience, which is limited, they move slowly and calmly unless they sense danger, then they are a rocket. Their bark is the first line of defense, pity the fool (of any species) that comes ahead anyway.

BTW, Mel's real full name is Mellow, named him that since he was such a mellow puppy.

 

[B&B Happy goats]

IMHO, the little ones are more likely to be neurotic, call it the small dog syndrome. I agree with @B&B Happy goats's post, almost wrote the same thing earlier. Finding a trained LGD is GOLD. Finding one TWICE? I don't think the odds are good.

We all believe DH to be a smart man and will understand that not all dogs are created equal. You should go meet this dog and see its personality. A well adjusted LGD will accept whoever their owner brings to them but it is unwise for an unknown person to approach them without the owner present. They are working dogs and protecting their property is their job. A Great Pyrenees is the polar opposite of an 8 pound nutjob. In my experience, which is limited, they move slowly and calmly unless they sense danger, then they are a rocket. Their bark is the first line of defense, pity the fool (of any species) that comes ahead anyway.

BTW, Mel's real full name is Mellow, named him that since he was such a mellow puppy.

 

[animalmom]

You know, if this wasn't such a serious topic... livestock guardian dog and all I'd wag my finger at the two of you as being pushers, not just enablers.