Ram died this morning; pneumonia

[NachoFarm]

I can't believe they're so sensitive to stress. If that was the case in humans I'd be dead a long time ago. :/

The woman we got him from has offered to give us another ram on the condition we pay the vet bill to have him checked. I don't know what they check for in a routine exam but it sounds like a good idea. This time we bring him home and keep him here.

In the future, we'd like to still be able to trade our ram for their buck at this other farm. Is there any "good" way to do that successfully? Besides not doing it a week after bringing him home. They own a 600 acre organic farm just up the road, we'd like to have a good relationship with them. They also offered to pay for a new ram but I don't think it makes sense to accept considering this isn't their fault.

 

[RemudaOne]

You just never know Nacho.... Another ram may have handled it just fine and hopefully this will be the only time you'll have pneumonia in one of your animals. I don't think it's out of the question to loan your ram at some point. Just get him home, let him get well adjusted and knowing that this is his home. You'll know when he's settled and thriving, then you can think about it.

For me.... If I'd just gone through what you have, it would be six months before I'd be comfortable sending him out. Let the animal tell you how they are doing. I shipped eleven sheep from my place to a buyers place about 4.5 hours away in May of this year. Had absolutely no problems. I think it helps if they can ship with "friends" that they know. At least that way there is still some familiarity and not a new place and a while new bunch of stranger sheep. My ewe lamb went by herself to the other farm, I think it was all too much for her and she probably didn't eat too well with all of the stress she was under...

You'll do just fine and so will your next ram. Keep your chin up!

 

[NachoFarm]

You'll do just fine and so will your next ram. Keep your chin up!

Thanks! It so easy to feel like we're in over our head around here. It just sucks that a mistake can result in such deadly consequences. Like Alice said, it was a shame we had to learn this way. Oh, on a side note, how can we tell if our ewes were bred to him? Do we just have to wait and see, and if so, how long until we can tell? Is there any other way to test?

 

[RemudaOne]

I guess you could wait about six weeks and have them ultrasounded. Did you ever see him mount them? The best thing I did when I first got sheep was to buy a book called Managing Your Ewe And Her Newborn Lambs by Laura Lawson. I've pretty much read it cover to cover. It answers a lot of the questions you have and is a great reference.

If your guy was ill while he was at your place he may not have bred them. They may not have been in season during the short time he was there.... No way to tell and if it were me, I wouldn't pay for ultrasounds. I would just put the new ram in with them. If you want to track the day they are bred then you can use a marking harness on the ram which will mark the ewe with a colored crayon when he mounts them. I have Dorpers and so far I've left the ram in with the ewes year round. I can't pinpoint when each ewe will lamb but I've gotten fairly good at being able to tell when it's imminent. Mine are not wool sheep so I can easily tell when they start bagging up too. Lawson's book gives all of the signs you can look for too.

 

[NachoFarm]

I guess you could wait about six weeks and have them ultrasounded. Did you ever see him mount them? The best thing I did when I first got sheep was to buy a book called Managing Your Ewe And Her Newborn Lambs by Laura Lawson. I've pretty much read it cover to cover. It answers a lot of the questions you have and is a great reference.

If your guy was ill while he was at your place he may not have bred them. They may not have been in season during the short time he was there.... No way to tell and if it were me, I wouldn't pay for ultrasounds. I would just put the new ram in with them. If you want to track the day they are bred then you can use a marking harness on the ram which will mark the ewe with a colored crayon when he mounts them. I have Dorpers and so far I've left the ram in with the ewes year round. I can't pinpoint when each ewe will lamb but I've gotten fairly good at being able to tell when it's imminent. Mine are not wool sheep so I can easily tell when they start bagging up too. Lawson's book gives all of the signs you can look for too.

I'll have to put that book on my Christmas list!

We did see him mount one ewe the first day he was here but that was the only time we witnessed.

He never did "appear" ill while he was here, he ate and chased the ewes around nibbling at their sides, he really seemed fine. I guess we'll just be prepared for due dates based on his first day in with them and go from there.

Thanks for the advice guys! Wish it wasn't about this topic though. :/

 

[SheepGirl]

What I would do with your new ram is put a marking harness on him so you know for a fact which ewes he breeds. That way in case your first ram settled any ewes you know which ram sired which lambs. Reason I say that is because you don't see your ram acting interested/breeding every ewe. For example, the first ewe my ram bred I watched him cover her a couple times while I was out feeding. The second ewe he bred I never saw him breed her, and the only evidence I had of her being in heat was the big red mark the ram left on her butt because of the marking harness.

Sorry for your loss--I hope he got one of your ewes settled and maybe you can get a ram lamb out of him to use as your flock sire?

 

[Sheepshape]

I'm SO sorry to hear about your loss,but try not beat yourself up about it.

No doubt the stress of moving can make an animal more susceptible to infection (pneumonia organisms are always present in the reparatory tract) , but, at the end of the day, pneumonia is an infection and it may have come from many sources. The most common organisms to cause lamb pneumonia here in Wales are Pasteurella species and can cause large lamb losses. We routinely vaccinate pregnant ewes before delivery (for trans-placental protection of the foetal lamb) and at about 6 weeks after birth. I'm not sure how long the immunity lasts, but we re-vaccinate everybody yearly. In spite of this, we still lose the occasional sheep to pneumonia.

Because I spend a lot of time with my sheep (I know....sad person....."Talks With Sheep"), I often pick up the early signs, so treatment with antibiotics (Baytril or similar) often works. Remember that the sheep is a prey animal and therefore only shows signs of illness late on ( a protective response to try to prevent it being noticed as weak by the predator when in the flock). The early signs are that the sheep is lethargic,off feed, moves slowly, may have a cough or runny nose, but the best sign of all is that it is breathing more rapidly than it should under the circumstances. That is the time to remove her from the flock to a warm and dry area out of the wind, give her plenty of food and water and get antibiotics from your vet. (Our vet is very obliging and will not insist on a call out or the need to get the animal to the vet with all the additional cost incurred). In spite of all this, we still lose a few.

Your ram obviously was unwell when he went to your neighbour's ewes as a healthy ram will not ignore ewes in season. I DO hope that you have more success with another ram, and mark it down to experience.

Our elderly farmer friend who keeps thousand of sheep always shakes his head wisely under these circumstances and says.."Having livestock always means you will have to have some deadstock"....a bit blunt, but oh so true.

 

[Sheepshape]

Apologies for the duplicate post.......the internet speed is so slow here that I don't think a post has gone when it has.......Sandie

I'm SO sorry to hear about your loss,but try not beat yourself up about it.

No doubt the stress of moving can make an animal more susceptible to infection (pneumonia organisms are always present in the reparatory tract) , but, at the end of the day, pneumonia is an infection and it may have come from many sources. The most common organisms to cause lamb pneumonia here in Wales are Pasteurella species and can cause large lamb losses. We routinely vaccinate pregnant ewes before delivery (for trans-placental protection of the foetal lamb) and at about 6 weeks after birth. I'm not sure how long the immunity lasts, but we re-vaccinate everybody yearly. In spite of this, we still lose the occasional sheep to pneumonia.

Because I spend a lot of time with my sheep (I know....sad person....."Talks With Sheep"), I often pick up the early signs, so treatment with antibiotics (Baytril or similar) often works. Remember that the sheep is a prey animal and therefore only shows signs of illness late on ( a protective response to try to prevent it being noticed as weak by the predator when in the flock). The early signs are that the sheep is lethargic,off feed, moves slowly, may have a cough or runny nose, but the best sign of all is that it is breathing more rapidly than it should under the circumstances. That is the time to remove her from the flock to a warm and dry area out of the wind, give her plenty of food and water and get antibiotics from your vet. (Our vet is very obliging and will not insist on a call out or the need to get the animal to the vet with all the additional cost incurred). In spite of all this, we still lose a few.

Your ram obviously was unwell when he went to your neighbour's ewes as a healthy ram will not ignore ewes in season. I DO hope that you have more success with another ram, and mark it down to experience.

Our elderly farmer friend who keeps thousand of sheep always shakes his head wisely under these circumstances and says.."Having livestock always means you will have to have some deadstock"....a bit blunt, but oh so true.

 

[Bridgemoof]

I'm so sorry Nacho. We sold a ram lamb earlier this year and he was weaned at the same time. He died a week later at his new place. Too much stress! Amazing how that stress can kill a sheep so easily. The vet that they had out thought it was stress related and he had maybe developed an ulcer. It was so sad. We sent a new ram to replace him and he did fine.

When we bought our new Jacob ram a month ago, we shipped him 4 hours. He seemed a little sick about a week after we got him. We gave him antibiotics and he recovered. I think this whole shipping business is tough on sheep. I wonder if there is something preventative we could do to alleviate the stress.

Now we give all the new animals that we bring here LA200 (antibiotic) upon arrival. I'm not sure if that is the right thing to do or not, but that's what we are doing. So far it's worked. Good luck with your new ram!

 

[NachoFarm]

So the vet came today and checked out our ewes, the ewe lamb had a temp of 39.8 (103.6?) and so we went ahead and treated them. I'm gun shy now because I don't want to walk out and find anybody else has died. So besides being off feed, is there anything else I should watch for?

I'm also noticing "fast" breathing...what is a normal breathing rate for sheep? And is it being faster a serious concern considering the circumstances around here?