Ridgetop - our place and how we muddle along

[farmerjan]

I was going to suggest a "laneway" so that you could have access from any/all to the barn without going through the middle of another pasture. We have 2 laneways at dougs... and they work good to run cattle down and to open a gate into which ever field we want them in. One has access to 4 fields... 3 on the right and one other on the left... the other goes into a field directly across from the gate and then along that field into another field up in the back... it really helps with getting cattle out of "their field" and headed to the barn or wherever we want them.

 

[Ridgetop]

Rika Rules! She spent the night in the lamb pen and this morning early was laying on the hillside at the top of the pen calmly surveying the gully for coyotes. No trouble with her on guard.

Angel patrolled the rest of the property. This morning early she was doing the patrols of the fence lines in the gully accompanied by Ozel, learning the ropes. Good girls. Angel has developed into an exceptionally pretty dog. She is a shaded mask color pattern which means she is a dilute black mask color pattern. Over the years her gray mask and ears have faded from gray to silver and her tawny coat into a beautiful silvery almost white color. She is starting to shed out her winter under coat and it is a beautiful blue gray color under that silver white to coat! Just lovely.

I am doing a new drawing of the pasture layouts the way DS1 suggested. I think they will be much more useable, and actually cheaper in wire and posts. The only part that might cost a bit more will be the secondary fence making the 20' wide driveway/chute from the back pasture to the barn. The chute will connect all the pastures to the barn, and at 20' wide it will allow access to all the pastures via truck or tractor. At 20' wide and about 350' long it i large enough to be grazed off by the sheep. It will take more wire for the second fence to form the driveway, but it will actually cut down on the number of expensive gates and support posts we would otherwise have needed. Alo by running the fences straight across instead at diagonals, we will save on wire and posts there. Another benefit will be that we can use Electronet to divide the different fields in half to make sure the sheep graze off every portion of it. Since we won't be using Electronet in each field all the tie, we will save money on just buying a couple rolls of Electronet and moving it around between the pastures. As soon as I get it drawn up and measured out I will post it for review.

 

[Ridgetop]

I was going to suggest a "laneway" so that you could have access from any/all to the barn without going through the middle of another pasture.

That is the plan we came up with! A laneway between the pastures ending up at the barn. The pasture closest to the road will be for the horses and rams. The next pasture above it (west) gives straight access for the haying equipment to get to the 30 acres of Bahia. I would like to put in another access from the highway but will have to find out from the state what it will take, and how much it will cost to put in a culvert, and new driveway. That is for later.

NCRS requires a water source in each pasture. We utilized the ponds for that but will also run water lines from the well to each pasture. NCRS requires a secondary water source. The water line from the house to the barn will connect the city water source to the barn. We will tie it to the pasture water lines with a shut off so only the well water will be used but in emergency we can close the well water line and divert city water into the pasture lines. Eventually we would like to put in another well. We are sitting on top of a really good aquifer.

The perimeter fencing for the 15 acres (which is all that is shown here) is Sta-Tuff 1775-6-330 Hi-Tensile fencing wire. The wire is 75" tall, with vertical wires every 6", and horizontal wires for 3" apart for first 24", then two 4" spacings, two 5" spacings, three 6" spacings, and three 7" spacings at the top. High tensile wire strung on heavy duty posts with welded pipe anchor braces and gate posts. The 30 acres of hayfields/cattle pastures already have good strong 4 strand barbed wire fencing around the perimeter. The fencing around the 15-acre perimeter is about 3200'. I bought 12 rolls of 330 fencing - 3960' - which will be used along the driveway going into the barnyard for a double gated entry into the LGDs domain. They will have access through dog gaps in the fences to all of the 15 acres.

The current first gate into the barnyard from the driveway is about 12-14' and will stay. All new pasture gates will be 16'. Some of the gates in the small pen area around the barnyard may be smaller.

From the barnyard running back to the west pastures will be a 20' lane wide enough for a truck and trailer or tractor to drive through. That lane will end at the barn catch pen. Once at the catch pen, the sheep can be driven through a chute in the barn for weighing, sorting, vaccinating, hoof trimming, worming, etc. - all the yucky parts of ranching. There are 3 pastures around the large pond and one large pasture around the small pond. All the pastures can be divided with Electronet powered by a solar charger. Using Electronet will make sure that the pastures are grazed efficiently for rotation. The Electronet will cost more $$$ but one or two rolls of it may be all we need for pasture division.

The fencing around the barn will be the portable panels and rodeo panels we already have. We had a complete Red River roping arena. DS3 took some of the panels when he was moving into his new place in Nipomo, but we got most of the back when he put in permanent fencing. We also have several 12' x 24' corrals which we can set up and put wire on to contain sheep as well. We will install those panels around the barn for a catch pen at the end of the runway. This catch pen will be large enough to work as a night fold if necessary and can be divided into several smaller pens with the portable corrals we already have. I have lots of gate panels too. The jugs will be in the barn and will open into the small pen (90'x150') which will act as a nursery for the tiny lambs before they are transferred into another field. There will be a double gated entry so the dogs will not accidently get out of the yard while we are bringing in trailers. We have 7 corral covers 8'x12' which can be put together in the fields to provide bad weather shelters.

For the pastures I will need about 8-9 rolls of 330' 48" sheep and goat wire, and 350 6' T-posts, as well as welded pipe H braces and gate posts. $$$! Hopefully the NCRS will approve this plan and I will be partially reimbursed for the cost of the fencing. I wonder if they will reimburse only the wire and posts or also the labor. If the labor as well, I may hire someone to do it. I also don't think they will approve the double lines of fencing necessary for the runway. They may just approve one line of fencing at that location. We will have to see.

Finally, in order to allow LGD access around the house at night (Rika), I am bringing 11 8' panels of prefab wrought iron fencing with me. These panels are not real iron but steel panels to make a DIY 5' high fence. These are the panels you can see and buy at Lowes. They assemble with metal self-tapping screws. I made a fence around our old Doughboy pool and deck when the first grandkids were small. I am going to take the fence apart, save the attachments, and reassemble the fence around the front yard in Yantis. I don't know if I can break the concrete off the posts in order to use them again, but I will try. If not, I will have to buy new posts. I already have 2 extra here which will be a savings. The fence panels and attachments add up to about $1800 that I will save by using these in Yantis. I will have to buy gate panels and hardware, however, I will have half of the materials I will need so that is a good savings. And if I can knock off the concrete enough to reuse the posts that will be another $500 saved. The fence installs fast once you start. Digging the holes and making sure the posts are set square and plumb is the hardest part. With this fence we can allow Rika or another dog to be up at the house at night for protection. The fence will also serve as a foundation for shrubbery that will help cut the traffic noise.

Lots of work , lots of money , but in the end a nice sheep operation - safe for my LGDs.

OK, time for opinions on this fencing layout. Let's hear the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly. Sorry, DH watched the Clint Eastwood marathon yesterday.

 

[Baymule]

I like this one.

Were you able to take advantage of the sale on wire at TSC?

 

[farmerjan]

It looks pretty good. You might want to consider gates between the pastures, we put them in where a roll of fence ends, just for ease to go between pastures rather than run cows out gates, down laneway, and in other gate. Plus if you need to go between pastures with some sort of equipment (bushog) it is faster. Not necessary, but convenient. The short 70 ft stretch would be a place we would put one that would make going from one side behind the pond right into the other big one... and if you subdivide directly parallel to the laneway, like right at the pond boundaries, you don't have to go out to the lane to go around... and you are still using the pond... and temp fence is none of their concern, once you have in the fence they will allow for.

Good to put gates across from each other into the laneway.

They should approve the fences on both sides of the lane if you claim it is also for grazing... it is interior division fencing. Make it 40 ft wide if it needs to qualify... you will use if for grazing just like we do. Access to the barn lot waterer should qualify.
Here they pay on the fence and posts used.... but they figure in a certain price per foot if I remember right, so it may cover some of the installation I will have to ask DS. Here you have 2 years once approved, to get it done. You get paid after it is done, so have to front the costs then get reimbursed.

 

[Ridgetop]

Were you able to take advantage of the sale on wire at TSC?

No, but have to put off our return to Texas to end of June. Posts and wire not in yet, hay not cut yet, and although I moved my doctor's appointment forward, DS1 and DH now have appointment for DDS and MD mid-June. However, there should be a 4th of July sale coming up so hopefully will go on sale then. And can spend an entire day running to all surrounding TSCs to get whatever is available.
You might want to consider gates between the pastures, we put them in where a roll of fence ends,

The short 70 ft stretch would be a place we would put one that would make going from one side behind the pond right into the other big one.

Just checked the plan I uploaded at 1:00 am and noticed that I don't show any gates on any of the interior fences between the pastures. My bad. 16' gates will go between all pastures, and also in the 70' stretch. They were on our scratched-up version but forgot to show them when I did the new one. (I also left out all the trees and bushes since we will be removing them if necessary for the fencing and they were confusing.)

They should approve the fences on both sides of the lane if you claim it is also for grazing... it is interior division fencing. Make it 40 ft wide if it needs to qualify... you will use if for grazing just like we do. Access to the barn lot waterer should qualify.

No problem changing the alleyway to 40' width. Same amount of wire and posts and if it will qualify for NCRS requirements, will do it. Will make a good additional grazing pen for newborn lambs in good weather, or anytime you need an additional holding pen short term.

Now just have to get perimeter finished and then start working on the interior fences. And make my appointment with NCRS for paperwork and approval. Will do appointment and formal application when we return to Texas with this new plan. Then have to wait for approval which won't come till after Jan 1. However, we will start fencing once plan is okayed. Has to be done whether NCRS reimburses or not.

On a sad note, Jeremy called this morning and said that it looked like something had killed 4 more of my trees in the past week! No sign of gophers. No deer damage. The apple and pear trees are still holding steady, but the apricots look dead, and the peaches and plums are look like they are dying. Leaves turned all brown and the trees look like some kind of herbicide was sprayed on them. The hayfield on that side has been cut and he wondered if they may have sprayed. If the hayfield was sprayed with herbicide for weeds the wind might have carried overspray onto the baby trees. They were setting fruit and he pulled all the juvenile fruit off last month to encourage stronger root growth. The trees were healthy and doing great. The figs were lost in the last freeze and the apricots as well, but the others were looking great. Jeremy dug around the base of the trees to check the soil. No standing water so no drainage problem, the soil was damp and looked good. Sandy loam. The root balls are solid, and the trunks strong. He said he planted the same trees in his mini orchard at the same time he did ours and they are doing ok. He said that his fig is trying to come back from the rootstock so we will see if that happens. Maybe the trees will recover. If there is one thing I hate more than losing livestock, it is losing fruit trees - any trees actually, but particularly fruit bearing trees.

 

[Bruce]

Well that solves that! Now it’s all their idea and you are off the hook.

Sure is a good thing the men thought up that plan and were able to convince @Ridgetop is was better than her first plan!!!

 

[Ridgetop]

Just talked to NCRS agent, John, who said that no fences can be built until everything is approved and contract signed. Contracts won't be signed until spring when new funding comes through.

That won't help me in moving onto the property in January! I have gone back to previous layout I sent to NCRS. He said that it looked good so if I can fence one pasture for main flock now, I can use the temp fences and barn for lambing, then do main fencing of multiple pastures in spring when funding arrives and contracts can be signed.

Back to the drawing board - literally. This has caused a problem, but working with government is always "hurry up and wait". I must be like a willow tree and bend - instead of the sturdy oak that will break. So instead of buying wire and starting the interior fences now, I will order Electronet and solar chargers. While waiting for approval and contract I can use them to pasture flock, then when I want to divide up the future permanent pastures, I will have them. I will also figure out what fences I can put in now without a problem with NCRS later. I think if I fence from the barn to the back (west) of the property, with two gates I will only need 2 rolls of wire. I already have one complete roll left from fencing here so will need T-posts and braces/fence posts for gates. Once the contracts are approved and signed next year, I can start fencing from rear of the property forward to highway, put in lane, and rest of pastures. The lane is considered "working equipment" and not allowable for reimbursement. But as one side of a new pasture, maybe they would allow it. Have to see. Disappointing that net contracts will not come out until spring but I will just have to work with it. That will also give me more time to buy wire, posts, and maybe save enough $$ to hire someone to put in fencing. Or part of it.

Another thing they will look at is the number of animals allowed per acre. The grass is required to be kept at 3" minimum height in all pastures so they will tell me what the maximum animals I can pasture will be. They will count the 2 horses and mule in that allowed number. Wood County minimum acreage for ag is 5 acres, 1000 lbs. per animal unit per acre, 5 sheep per 1000 lbs. = 5 sheep per acre. The mule and horses are probably about 1000 lbs. each, so they get one acre of feeding (but do not count toward ag). Have to see how many sheep the pastures will support properly allowing for the 3" minimum growth of grass. This is where the Electronet comes in handy in making sure the pastures are grazed uniformly. BTW the only acreage NCRS counts for the animal unit numbers is the areas fenced for grazing. Barns and ponds do NOT count in total. Counting the pasture acres on the drawing, I have 13.356 grazeable acres under fence. Deduct 3 acres for the horses, and I have 10 acres for the sheep or enough for 50 sheep. Since I already have 40 sheep, I better cut down on the number before paying transport for the horses and sheep back to TX.

Back to my pasture plan and calculator . . . .

 

[Ridgetop]

Sure is a good thing the men thought up that plan and were able to convince @Ridgetop is was better than her first plan!!!

Actually, DS1 and DH did a lot of the plan once I got them to concentrate on it. The access lane was DS1's idea. DH and DS1 figured out the water lines for best water pressure delivery.

 

[Bruce]

The grass is required to be kept at 3" minimum height in all pastures

How do you get the sheep to agree to eat only the part of the grass that is over 3" high.