RUBY"S new pups!

[RacehorsesRock]

That's great RR,because it will make a difference in the value of her pups I would think...T.O.R.

Yeah, we had a Mountain Cur (brindle pure) that we rescued off the side of the road, 10 weeks old, 2 inches of snow on the ground, both front legs broken. Her legs were fine after a few weeks of TLC. Last year she had her first litter of puppies (accidents, but adorable). There were 7 pups, and all of her pups were fine and healthy. One went to our local police department, and is being trained there (another reason our new Shepherd gets to train there). She had her second and last litter a few months ago. A few weeks after they were born, we had just weaned them, and she started attacking us and some of the horses (yes, she got kicked by the horses, but due to her breeding to be a boar hunting dog she was fine). We took her to a rehab facility for dogs, they couldn't help her. So we had to put her down a few weeks ago, sadly the day after we got our Shepherd. Now remember, that dog wasn't trained in anything, and she was very agressive. But her pup was good enough to be a police dog. So it really depends on the dog, I think. Even if our Shepherd was the best dog in the world, her pups may not be so great. Heres a pic, of the Shepherd. Her name is Mischa, she's 3 1/2 months.

 

[RacehorsesRock]

EXPECTING A MALE TO TAKE CONTROL?

There are many very experienced “doggers” on this site and so I expect some comments on my views on the subject. But my comments are restricted to “herding dogs” as opposed to guarding type dogs.

Generally speaking a farmer who buys a “fully trained” dog at quite some cost (at least $1500.00 )for a “paddock ready dog “is about 2 years of age. Yet to decrease this cost a farmer will sometimes purchase a 4/5 month old pup and after a few weeks put it out with the farmers existing dogs to “learn the ropes”, what this farmer fails to understand is that the pup will inherit all of the faults of the older dog, but place the “blame “on the pup and its breeder.

When I got my first dog (over 40 years ago) I sought advice from a well respected stock agent (who was our agent for livestock sales for over 30 years) and working dog breeder about my newly acquired bitch puppy he gave me some advice that I have never forgotten.”Let her grow, don’t let her get “knocked about by the stock” and don’t expect too much until she is 18 months old”.

My current dog MAX did not take control until he was 2 years of age by which time he had enough practice and the confidence to handle the sheep in our flock. The other day I had both Max and Ruby (she was having a rest from the pups) out together shepherding the new Dorper flock ,which by the way is a whole different proposition to the English Suffolk’s on which he was brought up on. The Dorpers take a dog with much more “confidence” to manage than the old mob and they are not afraid to “challenge” the dog and if it shows any “weakness’ will run over the top of it. This was the first time I had run the two dogs together and the differences in “style” were oblivious from the start. Ruby is a yard –bred dog and so in the paddock she “trails” the stock from behind ,keeping the mob bunched up, whereas Max has been taught to stay on the wings and move back and forth to “cover the wings’ ,he also has a “good cast” but rather than driving the stock towards me he controls the direction I want the stock move to, if they pass the gate he knows they must go through he will” on direction “go to the “head “ and block and drive them back in the direction he knows they must take to complete the task .Increasingly he will move “with-out direction” to correct the way the sheep are travelling to ensure they do not stray from the correct path.

Max will over time be a better dog than his father Jack, because of the gene’s he has inherited from Ruby. Jack was a “wonderful” dog and we sold many pups bred by him over the years and in the hands of a competent farmer never had a “bad word” or a pup returned to us...T.O.R.

We are going to keep both the pups from Ruby to train up and so we will not “lose” the female side of our type. They have been named, Rosie (black and tan) and Meg (red and tan) so over the next two years you will be able to follow their progress as they grow and learn.

Yay! Sorry if you've already told us, but what breed? And are they pure? I've been around dogs my whole life and I've never seen that breed, then again I mostly was with protectioin type breeds (bulldogs, pitbulls (my dad bred and trained them), mastiffs, etc.

 

[Latestarter]

She's a pretty girl RR... Sure hope she didn't get the "mean gene" and works out for you.

 

[goats&moregoats]

Congrats on two beautiful pups and thank you for sharing information about the sire and dam. Also thanks for the information on here about this breed. I love learning about many things, but animals in general is my favorite.

 

[RacehorsesRock]

She's a pretty girl RR... Sure hope she didn't get the "mean gene" and works out for you.

Yeah, we do have a pitbull/bulldog cross that's agressive, but were working on getting him better. Then we have our old, angry at the world yorkie Elvis. So were hoping she doesn't learn after them, but she does go lots of places. I take her to the park everyday (except for this week cause we took her in rural king and she got pneumonia, can't go anywhere for a few weeks now.)

 

[The Old Ram-Australia]

G'day RR,the dogs are Australian Working Kelpies as distinct from the show/bench Kelpie (which in my experience has not got a "working bone " in its body).A lot depends on the breeder and lots of the dogs around have been infused with B Collies and even Dingos,back in Ruby's history a Dingo was used to enhance endurance and as a regressive gene she used to have a yellow pup almost every litter in her younger days.Working Kelpies are bred to perform a variety of livestock tasks on different types of stock (sheep,cattle ,goats ,etc) hence the different sizes ,shapes and colours. Here is a link to a post from earlier times.https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http...0p09KR40R0uSYLv6mftg647nib7I8uNJ2Qlzv-KIDF8rN
T.O.R.

 

[Baymule]

I do not have sheep herding dogs, but I deeply admire them. Herding dogs are poetry in motion, fluid in movement, anticipating what the sheep will do before even the sheep know what they are going to do. Brilliant dogs with a job to do, and they do it well. T.O.R. I am glad that you are keeping the pups. They have the breeding to be the best and your training will make them exceptional.

 

[The Old Ram-Australia]

G'day BM,I am of the opinion that most farmers "misunderstand the way a Kelpie thinks because it is not about "training" it for the job but to harness its natural bred-in ability,unlike BC's, there instincts are well developed and can be ruined by over control and not allowing the dog to think .The key to my mind is the dog learns by "repetition" of the task,old Jack was a master and in his prime and for years after he understood that the way out was the way back and by this I mean we walked through the paddocks leaving the gates open as we went and when we picked up the sheep it was left to me to "shut the gates" after he had put the stock through them.Max is starting to show this understanding of the job while we have been "herding" the Dorpers in the house paddock over the last week or so.He is starting to grasp the idea of where I do not want the sheep to go and will move to "block them" as soon as I rise to stop them without me saying anything just by my body language...T.O.R.

 

[RacehorsesRock]

G'day RR,the dogs are Australian Working Kelpies as distinct from the show/bench Kelpie (which in my experience has not got a "working bone " in its body).A lot depends on the breeder and lots of the dogs around have been infused with B Collies and even Dingos,back in Ruby's history a Dingo was used to enhance endurance and as a regressive gene she used to have a yellow pup almost every litter in her younger days.Working Kelpies are bred to perform a variety of livestock tasks on different types of stock (sheep,cattle ,goats ,etc) hence the different sizes ,shapes and colours. Here is a link to a post from earlier times.https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-22/the-hard-yards:-the-ultimate-test-of-canine-and/8734608&h=ATN_LE17Y1CIjRlM84JDplstuuiWaPQ7D_iBoIht92a0J8gEMMj33Vk32fqo9aFWW4OkqCXNJlB8JgdvaFnJCrmg09Rng2wH0BGe22Yu9TsUT22_wATSR8hXi7_4aXk3bAifgZSAC1PLnoeMOwC2dLvSeel5N1CDjyfAR-xczdfpBztxyZACyJK2aCqPno2ws00C4FV2ejQ2E50UQOpNTlRFApT9kXXUrrjZGx00J1nIqBZ8ZZ0Z7IsoVwZNIVSq3uy0p09KR40R0uSYLv6mftg647nib7I8uNJ2Qlzv-KIDF8rN
T.O.R.

Ah, well they're a gorgeous breed. Also, we decided not to breed our pup, vet said it will lengthen her life if we don't breed her.

 

[The Old Ram-Australia]

G'day, I recall I posted some years ago a series of stills showing how Jack carried out the work.Here is the link,as you can see I am taking the pic's at some distance from both Jack and the sheep and he has the situation well in hand.I hope the link works OK with pic's and explanatory text thttps://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=632799530136401&id=489540237795665
There is also a video link to Max's first attempt with ewes and lambs..http://www.facebook.com/pages/SHEEP-Farmer/489540237795665 hope you all enjoy..T.O.R.