SBC/GW's Journal- Spring shows DONE! & Update

[Bruce]

Is this a matter of the goats being able to self regulate their cobalt intake?

 

[Goat Whisperer]

Yes, the goats will regulate.
If they need it (hopefully) they will eat it. They have cobalt in their loose minerals, but not very much.

On another note the new hay feeder is GREAT! We had another bale delivered yesterday- that means a bale lasted a full two weeks!!!! (for the does, have another that we flake off for the other goats- babies & bucks)

 

[misfitmorgan]

Is there a reason you went with asking for the cobalt blocks vs the cobalt loose mineral? I have cobalt bolus but i've used it once on one goat and didnt notice a huge difference. The plan was to try it out on my stunted tog does but they were to small for the bolus dosing so i never did.

I'm very glad the feeder is working out, i'm sure the hay savings will be very nice on the pocket book.

 

[Southern by choice]

Is there a reason you went with asking for the cobalt blocks vs the cobalt loose mineral? I have cobalt bolus but i've used it once on one goat and didnt notice a huge difference. The plan was to try it out on my stunted tog does but they were to small for the bolus dosing so i never did.

I'm very glad the feeder is working out, i'm sure the hay savings will be very nice on the pocket book.

We have both ...now. The block is very minimal but having it available will help keep levels up in additional to e good loose mineral that contains the cobalt.
I am working on a write up but to answer your immediate question- the cobalt sulfate really should not be given "loose". It is a pink powder. Most goats will not even eat it. It can burn, therefore it must be mixed with water and drenched. There are different recipes for this.
You must wear gloves and protect yourself from inhaling it as well... not great to work with.
The issue with the loose minerals is most do not have cobalt in it, those that do have a very small amount and is not always adequate. Much like selenium or copper deficient areas when additional support has to be given, such as BoSe and Copper Bolus or Multi min injections.

I looked at the bolus rods. I also talked with Ferguson K as she had used them. I opted not to go that route.

We have tried so many minerals and our does just won't eat them. We use to hand feed them minerals... then they started turning their nose up... it has become a real issue. We started giving drenches of Red Cell weekly just to get what they need in them... worked great to - saw some great changes. But we have far too many goats to do this. I talked with a friend- she does lots and lots of research too and she has been using a cattle mineral for years. Her goats are in great health and are beautiful. I thought I have to do something... so I tried it. Bought a bag and the goats love it! I am tracking how they do... it takes time. I just felt like some of our goats are just "too" slow growing. We have slow growing lines but I still feel like they need more. Our Nigies and minis are all fine. It could just be the line and genetics. I just want to make sure it isn't a deficiency. I did not do an analysis this time.

 

[misfitmorgan]

Our 3 tog girls seem tiny, i dont know if they will ever be their intended size. I do know there are two sort of tog sizes up here, a smaller version and a version as large as the alpines but more beefy in width. I have no clue which these girls are suppose to be but i do know they will be 2yrs old in February and look like 2yr old mini's.

Hopefully the move means we can set things up differently and get on top of stuff wit hthe sheep and goats more and see what works to get them looking more thrifty and grow.

No feed stores around here carry the cobalt blocks or ever heard of them so i dunno where i will ever find them. Most everything i've ever read on it says cattle and sheep should have cobalt free choice but no cattle or sheep people use them up here.

EDIT:
I just looked at pictures i took last night and it seems in the pictures that Ivy and Mocha are pretty much the same size as my Alpine but hazel is still tiny maybe half the size. Hazel did have two injuries as a kid so maybe that contributed to a stall in her growth, i dunno.

 

[Southern by choice]

@misfitmorgan the longer I do this the more I want to throw my hands up in the air

This happens to many breeders... why does one doe grow normal, the other slow and runty? The twins Pearl and Prynne are night and day different. Pearl is very correct but small, delicate boned, narrower... she will remain in a mini program- like I said she is correct just smaller. Same care, same feed, same everything. Prynne, deeper, heavier in bone, broad and deep.

Zephyr was super slow growing and really didn't get her body capacity til 3 years old. I look at the pics of her at kidding her first kid and she was so tiny, very nice doe just small... she was bred for minis. We felt smaller kids would be better for her as FF because she was smaller. This year she kidded standard buck, and she has been bred for standards for 2018 as well. She has turned out to be an awesome doe. She has great body capacity, gorgeous mammary... she is short though- just meets the breed standard.

You can order the cobalt blocks on line but the shipping is killer! You can order the cobalt sulfate too and drench.

 

[misfitmorgan]

@misfitmorgan the longer I do this the more I want to throw my hands up in the air

This happens to many breeders... why does one doe grow normal, the other slow and runty? The twins Pearl and Prynne are night and day different. Pearl is very correct but small, delicate boned, narrower... she will remain in a mini program- like I said she is correct just smaller. Same care, same feed, same everything. Prynne, deeper, heavier in bone, broad and deep.

Zephyr was super slow growing and really didn't get her body capacity til 3 years old. I look at the pics of her at kidding her first kid and she was so tiny, very nice doe just small... she was bred for minis. We felt smaller kids would be better for her as FF because she was smaller. This year she kidded standard buck, and she has been bred for standards for 2018 as well. She has turned out to be an awesome doe. She has great body capacity, gorgeous mammary... she is short though- just meets the breed standard.

You can order the cobalt blocks on line but the shipping is killer! You can order the cobalt sulfate too and drench.

That was the same confusion i had, everyone is fed the same feed in general. If someone is looking "behind" i will separate them at feeding time and give them more grain or whatever they look like they need.

The togs have always been on the same feed as each other with the exception of Hazel, she has almost consistently for 2 yrs been given extra. Alfalfa hay instead of grass, a sweet feed mix instead of standard, or standard feed instead of mixed with shell corn, nurti-drench, vitamin E & selenium, Vitamin B shots, Probiotic Paste, lamb & kid, etc...it has made no difference for hazel.

Now as i said i noticed the other two have grown quite a lot and she is still little. I think thats why i didn't notice, i'm so used to just looking and worrying about Hazel i just assumed they were all three the same size still. I did a double take when i saw Mocha and Ivy were nearly the size of Cassiopia and Phoebe.

It also looks to me like all three of those togs are bred....but i could be wrong.

 

[Southern by choice]

That was the same confusion i had, everyone is fed the same feed in general. If someone is looking "behind" i will separate them at feeding time and give them more grain or whatever they look like they need.

The togs have always been on the same feed as each other with the exception of Hazel, she has almost consistently for 2 yrs been given extra. Alfalfa hay instead of grass, a sweet feed mix instead of standard, or standard feed instead of mixed with shell corn, nurti-drench, vitamin E & selenium, Vitamin B shots, Probiotic Paste, lamb & kid, etc...it has made no difference for hazel.

Now as i said i noticed the other two have grown quite a lot and she is still little. I think thats why i didn't notice, i'm so used to just looking and worrying about Hazel i just assumed they were all three the same size still. I did a double take when i saw Mocha and Ivy were nearly the size of Cassiopia and Phoebe.
View attachment 41274 View attachment 41275
It also looks to me like all three of those togs are bred....but i could be wrong.

She does look like a mini. You are positive of parentage?
She may just be a small doe. It makes me wonder if sometimes one kid just gets more of something.

 

[misfitmorgan]

She does look like a mini. You are positive of parentage?
She may just be a small doe. It makes me wonder if sometimes one kid just gets more of something.

Yes, i think, all 3 actually came from a large-ish(50 does or so) dairy farm down state. The does were not registered but i was told they were togs. I did not actually buy them, a local lady i knew for a few years bought them(at $100 each as bottle kids) and ended up needing to get out of her livestock for personal reasons so i bought 6 of her goats for $300 and the togs were included in that.

So unless they had a Nigerian buck and sold it off before she went to get kids they would have to be standard size i think. I do know Mocha and Hazel were both twins but not each others twin. I also am aware my togs were part of the dairies cull kids.

I also notice hazel stands like that a lot, like she is uncomfortable.

 

[Southern by choice]

@misfitmorgan yeah she does stand funny... we have a doe that had a beautiful topline, we witnessed her get hit really hard from behind. Since then she stands a little off, hunched but not as bad as your doe... we think she would do great with a chiropractor, but it seems around here they only do horses.

Well... @promiseacres has somewhat inspired me.
I am not going to be making and baked goods for gifting this Christmas but I thought I'd share some of my favorites.
These are not typical Christmas cookies and really are for discerning tastebuds... IOW not children.
Children will eat anything with sugar and icing... they can have that and leave the good cookies for the adults that want flavor but not a bite full of sweet sugar.

Here are some of my favorites. I also have a small list of Christmas Cookies from around the world... but my book is packed up.

These are Lace Pecan Florentines - I love this recipe because it is actually a lace, most are thick and globby... they are suppose to be thin. The trick is the crispness and making sure the pecans are pulverized to the right consistency.
Double Dipped Hazelnut Crisps- These are extremely time consuming but so very worth it. I do buy my hazelnuts in shell... so that is the first thing- they are very hard to crack and it takes a long time. The hazelnuts must be pulverized perfectly.... the rolling of the dough must be very even for a good bake, the cutter must be sharp for perfect edges. The baking isn't hard but tricky due to the color- it contains espresso coffee and semi sweet chocolate- so you cannot go by color. The dough is thin so the goal is "crisps". The last part of the dipping is fun but again time consuming- lots of steps.... They are gorgeous and oh so delectable!

The cookie circled-
Chocolate Pistachio Fingers- Again time consuming but oh so good! Basically an Almond buttery shortbread type. The cookie by itself just melts in your mouth- delish! The ropes size is the key to a beautiful presentation. Too thin, or too long and it throws the balance off. The hand dipping is tedious and dipping in the pistachio can make a mess. Chopping the pistachios too fine, or leaving too chunky only makes it worse.

I also love raspberry ribbons!

I am hoping to make a White Silk Raspberry Torte and maybe some Profiteroles (custard filled) Christmas Eve Day. I probably won't have time but I really do want to make them.

LOL I guess I've never been "normal"... it occurred to me as I was typing - my very first cookies that I was allowed to bake all on my own (the siblings and I were too pick one recipe and make it for Christmas Baskets as gifts... we all picked something different and it was so much fun) were Date filled Pinwheels. What 8 year old picks dates? If memory serves me I think I got tired and started just making date filled cookies... it seemed like we made hundreds of cookies It was probably only 5-6 dozen. lol