Sheep sale policy

[NH homesteader]

I'm curious what the "questionable circumstances" were. That could make a difference. Those were the words that made me assume you didn't want to send another one there!

This happened with a friend of mine who sold a piglet to a mutual friend. They're both excellent, experienced pig farmers. Everyone was a little hot at first but they realized... Stuff happens.

 

[Ponker]

I hate to say it but I've learned the hard way that even if the lamb is delivered to you riddled with worms, non breed standard, losing its wool, and thin as a rail, you'll play heck getting anything from the seller unless they have some integrity. My recent lamb purchase went this way. Two ewe lambs delivered in the abovementioned condition and I spent $400 each on them and another $400 on the vet (2x to my place)dewormers, probiotics... They were 4 months old and weighed TWELVE pounds each!

It's my own fault for having the nurture response and the "Ohh look at them!" I tried so hard to save the poor little things. I even wrote to the breeder expressing my dissatisfaction (they were still alive). The Vet warned me. He said, "Failure to thrive." They weren't gaining weight and we were trying everything. After they died, the breeder wanted to know what happened , on my farm, that caused their death! Needless to say after I went through the agonizing heartbreak of losing my two dear frail little girls, I wanted to beat the crap out of the breeder for selling them to me as 'Premium Ewe Lambs'.

But I should have returned them, all the way across Missouri to the breeder who thought they could dump these poor little lambs on me. But once they were on my farm... Anyway, the integrity of the breeder is all that remains. If the death was truly from something that happened only days after delivery, I'd ask WHAT caused the death? Details.

Until we know more about why the lamb died, it's impossible to say if the breeder is 'on the hook'.

I plan on selling lambs next year so I'm on both sides of the issue. I have a plan to put my lambs on top. With a simple guarantee with lambs being within breed specifications upon delivery. Maybe include body condition score and chart with the lamb, a FAMACHA score, and a DAG score with accompanying chart. Documenting the condition of the lamb upon arrival along with recent fecal exam results. Along with OPP, brucellosis, CL, and Johnes negative flock and test results to prove it. I'm going to set the bar high and I'll make a good reputation honoring my guarantee and by provinding great quality lambs.

 

[Green Acres Farm]

I had a sort of similar experience.
We purchased 5 goats from a lady. Around a month later, we tested them for CAE. Three came back positive. We told the sellers, and they took the 3 back, but did not give us any sort of refund. $500+ loss.
I know, we bought them, so our fault, but it was/is very frustrating!
So lesson learned- do not EVER purchase from untested or questionable herds!!! It is NOT worth it!

 

[Ponker]

I heard of a man who purchased 6 lambs and they died within a week. He contacted the seller wanting a refund. When asked why they dies he told them they got into the chicken feed and ate it all!

Sorry, but that isn't the sellers fault.

@Green Acres Farm I am appalled the breeder didn't give you a refund. They even got the goats back. And from the sounds of it, probably resold them... (Having a pessimistic day today) It's horrible breeders like this that give the rest of us a bad time. And when there isn't a contract upon purchase, nothing is firmed up. I bet you'd win in small claims court though, but what a hassle.

 

[Southern by choice]

We purchased 5 goats from a lady. Around a month later, we tested them for CAE. Three came back positive. We told the sellers, and they took the 3 back, but did not give us any sort of refund. $500+ loss.
I know, we bought them, so our fault, but it was/is very frustrating!
So lesson learned- do not EVER purchase from untested or questionable herds!!! It is NOT worth it!

@Green Acres Farm I am appalled the breeder didn't give you a refund. They even got the goats back. And from the sounds of it, probably resold them... (Having a pessimistic day today) It's horrible breeders like this that give the rest of us a bad time. And when there isn't a contract upon purchase, nothing is firmed up. I bet you'd win in small claims court though, but what a hassle.

If the goats were bought without the agreement of the goats being negative for CAE the seller is NOT responsible. They took the risk of buying from an untested herd. The breeder did not have to take the goats back but did. In this case no, small claims would not award her refund. She could have kept the animals.

The other side of this is NO TEST is 100% and truly you cannot guarantee. The best anyone can do is to maintain a tested herd ( yearly). Seeing as how offspring cannot be tested til minimum of 6 months of age and better done at 8 months, when buying a kid that is all you can go on - the results of parent stock.

 

[Green Acres Farm]

The other side of this is NO TEST is 100% and truly you cannot guarantee. The best anyone can do is to maintain a tested herd ( yearly).

I know, but since 3 treated positive, I felt pretty confident it was accurate. Also, none of our other goats tested positive, just their's.

And yes, I know they were not responsible for the positive test. But when they took them back, it was a big money loss on our part. But I should not complain because it was our choice to buy them and our responsibility.


ETA: Why would they say they wanted them back, take them and not give any sort of refund? We could have sold them for meat... I know, I know... I'll stop.

 

[Southern by choice]

I know, but since 3 treated positive, I felt pretty confident it was accurate. Also, none of our other goats tested positive, just their's.

What I mean by that is that lets say your herd tests negative in Jan 2016... but what you don't know is that you are one number shy of being suspect, 4 shy of positive... meaning the goat is negative but those numbers are right on the fringe. You breed a "negative" animal. Those numbers generally do go up during pregnancy... so 4 1/2 months into pregnancy her numbers are actually in the positive range... she kids... CAE is transferred to kid. Kid is now positive but you would never really give it a second thought because you don't know those titers and all tested negative in Jan.
You sell the kid not knowing, and new owners test kid at 6-8 months and find out the kid is positive.

And yes, I know they were not responsible for the positive test. But when they took them back, it was a big money loss on our part. But I should not complain because it was our choice to buy them and our responsibility.

Yes, if you did not go to a breeder that tests than risk is on you.

ETA: Why would they say they wanted them back, take them and not give any sort of refund? We could have sold them for meat... I know, I know... I'll stop.

Depending on the circumstances the breeder may know you just want them off your land and is willing to take them back.

I am a big believer in giving the benefit of the doubt.

We know some people that had CAE come into their herd and it was a miss on the paperwork... it was a horribly sad situation. I could not speak high enough of these breeders.
I remember hanging up the phone and just crying. They honored every single client and either took the goat back or gave the option for them to keep but with a signed waiver that they had been informed. Many chose to keep the goats and do a prevention because of either the quality, or genetics etc...

Mistakes and accidents DO happen. Grace and mercy is ours to give freely.

We all learn from our experiences. I am sorry you went through this.

There really is only so much a breeder can do.

 

[Green Acres Farm]

What I mean by that is that lets say your herd tests negative in Jan 2016... but what you don't know is that you are one number shy of being suspect, 4 shy of positive... meaning the goat is negative but those numbers are right.

I think one of the goats had clinical CAE- she had an inhibition level of 70 and was losing weight, rough hair coat, etc. Another one of them was borderline positive, but still "negative," so the breeders took her back.

And you are right, I do need to give the benefit of the doubt.

On the results there was one thing I didn't understand- a couple of goats had negative inhibition levels. For example -21.561. Was that a mistake?

 

[Southern by choice]

I think one of the goats had clinical CAE- she had an inhibition level of 70 and was losing weight, rough hair coat, etc. Another one of them was borderline positive, but still "negative," so the breeders took her back.

And you are right, I do need to give the benefit of the doubt.

On the results there was one thing I didn't understand- a couple of goats had negative inhibition levels. For example -21.561. Was that a mistake?

When we get our paperwork there are a bajilion numbers I was like our lab is great at explaining all the numbers and that is how we learn. The way the individual lab sends out the numbers will vary. No not a mistake but you should call the lab and speak with the person who ran the test. They can explain what each number means.

 

[Green Acres Farm]

When we get our paperwork there are a bajilion numbers I was like our lab is great at explaining all the numbers and that is how we learn. The way the individual lab sends out the numbers will vary. No not a mistake but you should call the lab and speak with the person who ran the test. They can explain what each number means.

I'll do that.