Snuffles (Pasteurellosis)

[Ms. Research]

I've read that and then the next thing I'll read will say there is no cure, almost nonexhistant treatment success and it will always be passed on to kits and make them sick. That's what I mean by conflicting information, and seriously the veterinarians are both respected with farm/meat animals--including rabbits. They both gave me advice with the idea that the rabbit had the worst form of snuffles and considering how many other animals I've had treated successfully by both of them I'm taking their advice.

I don't believe she ever had this Pasteurellosis. Maybe they aren't called "colds" but I've read dozens of other things that make a rabbit sneeze and have extremely minimal nasal discharge (as in next to none). I don't think my other rabbits are in danger because a rabbit who came from the same breeder as her is in very good health, has never sneezed once in all the time we've had them; none of the others--all of which were within ten feet of my "sneezing doe" for more than a month--are showing symptoms. It has been two weeks since we quarantined her and no one is sneezing even now. She is very young--two of her hutch neighbors are barely 8 weeks old--and none of them are over 4 months, so symptoms would likely be popping up in the young rabbits quicker especially since one of the 2-month rabbits escaped and was chased around the yard for hours and never sneezed--I think chasing her around like that was stressing enough to give ME snuffles much less the rabbit.

I am very new to rabbits and I think that every little change in the wind has me paranoid, but I believe that my rabbit had allergies/a cold/etc etc and is fine now. If my entire herd gets snuffles I guess I will have learned my lesson but I don't believe that will be the case. Hopefully some of you are right and this is just something all rabbits have in a dormant form and there's no reason to go killing every sneezing rabbit on my property--though there's been only one lol.

Thanks again

CYG

I am New to rabbits too and yes with conflicting information I would be a little paranoid too. Taking the vets advise was wise, but sometimes they can be a little off as well. Lots of unknowns in rabbits. But it's not just rabbits. Reading all the goat information, there are a lot of conflicting information there as well. Along with sheep, cows, horses, etc.

The air has been getting worse over time. More and more people are coming down with allergies that never had them before. Now just think what the animals are going through. They are affected as well. My 12 year old dog started with allergies at 5. Have been giving him benadryl as prescribed by his vet to help with the ichy eyes and ears. Along with the sneezing. I had to do something because when he sneezed, he sneezed so hard he constantly was hitting his nose on the floor.

Snuffles is contagious and is life threatening. Unfortunately allergies show the same symptoms sometimes. It's really hard to tell. But I would have done the same thing as you.

Hope all stays well.

 

[Mea]

I am very new to rabbits and I think that every little change in the wind has me paranoid, but I believe that my rabbit had allergies/a cold/etc etc and is fine now. If my entire herd gets snuffles I guess I will have learned my lesson but I don't believe that will be the case. Hopefully some of you are right and this is just something all rabbits have in a dormant form and there's no reason to go killing every sneezing rabbit on my property--though there's been only one lol.

Thanks again

CYG

Welcome to 'Paranoia Land' ! lol. With fluctuating weather...Hot and uggy one day Cool and windy the next... i get panicy at any 'odd' sound in the barn !! ( including the weird noise my boot started making ! )

Not every sneeze is snuffles. Yes... studies have shown that about 99% of rabbits carry some form of pastueralla in their sinuses. Those with strong immune systems will keep it in check. Those that are not so strong might show symptoms ranging from mild to deadly. However the virulant form of pastueralla 'usually' kills the rabbit quickly...within a matter of days.

On another group a poster was talking about a rabbit sneezing so violently. They were about to put the rabbit down... when she sneezed out a seed of some sort ! Never sneezed again. So i would think dust could do similar things.

Good Lick.

 

[dewey]

I've read that and then the next thing I'll read will say there is no cure, almost nonexhistant treatment success and it will always be passed on to kits and make them sick.

Depending on the strain, most research suggests that it is often something to be managed, never "cured", and although it will most likely be passed on to any offspring not all will become sick...those with strong immune systems seem to be resistant and thrive regardless, passing that immunity on to their own offspring...while others with weaker systems, even within the same litter, often perish at a younger age.

That's what I mean by conflicting information...

Most up to date research does not conflict with each other's findings. Opinions may conflict but the scientific research usually does not.

and seriously the veterinarians are both respected with farm/meat animals--including rabbits. They both gave me advice with the idea that the rabbit had the worst form of snuffles

One's vet advice is usually best followed if they're rabbit savvy. What comes to mind is the worst strain can cause death in a matter of hours while others will linger for some time with other symptoms that progress to death despite all medical intervention. No slight to any vets (my very closest friend for ages was a mobile, oncall livestock vet and he would be the first to note that many have little hands-on experience with rabbits) but there's no way anybody could know the specific bacterial source without testing. How vets can determine from mild temp sneezing without colored discharge that it was a deadly form of P is something I'd be interested in knowing. Which, in the worst case situations there's usually little or no time for testing for.

and considering how many other animals I've had treated successfully by both of them I'm taking their advice.
I don't believe she ever had this Pasteurellosis.

That seems to conflict with the vets input they gave to you....but I believe it could very well be the case. Many things can cause slight, short term sneezing. I have some that are very sensitive to dust in hay and they'll sneeze when it's being distributed throughout the barn.

Maybe they aren't called "colds" but I've read dozens of other things that make a rabbit sneeze and have extremely minimal nasal discharge (as in next to none). I don't think my other rabbits are in danger because a rabbit who came from the same breeder as her is in very good health, has never sneezed once in all the time we've had them; none of the others--all of which were within ten feet of my "sneezing doe" for more than a month--are showing symptoms. It has been two weeks since we quarantined her and no one is sneezing even now. She is very young--two of her hutch neighbors are barely 8 weeks old--and none of them are over 4 months, so symptoms would likely be popping up in the young rabbits quicker especially since one of the 2-month rabbits escaped and was chased around the yard for hours and never sneezed--I think chasing her around like that was stressing enough to give ME snuffles much less the rabbit.

Not saying it's the case, but many will never show symptoms, and any exposed are considered likely carriers according to latest research...as most are believed to be.

I am very new to rabbits and I think that every little change in the wind has me paranoid, but I believe that my rabbit had allergies/a cold/etc etc and is fine now. If my entire herd gets snuffles I guess I will have learned my lesson but I don't believe that will be the case.

The point of research is that it suggests that most rabbits/herds have it in the midst and
only some, if any, will show outward symptoms and/or have it progress to a problem status.

Hopefully some of you are right and this is just something all rabbits have in a dormant form and there's no reason to go killing every sneezing rabbit on my property

Just personally, I'd never suggest that by any means. And personally speaking I would also not sell a rabbit that has more than bouts of momentary sneezing due to known haying/dust allergies, and even if pressed to do so otherwise, only with full disclosure though it's yet to be an issue for me. Our honesty and reputation is everything. Many folks have purchased resistant stock or they breed their own herds for resistance. I've read of folks that have limited access to good stock availability and/or that are just starting out that take the path of keeping does with mild symptoms in order to retain surviving kits that will pass on that same resistance. Seems logical to me. Any late research to the contrary would be most welcomed.

--though there's been only one lol.
Thanks again
CYG

 

[CYGChickies]

My vets didn't say she had the deadly form they treated it as if she did. They gave me information in a "worst case scenario" form. And yes there's a lot of conflicting information and yes I'm also done reading about it. I had another breeder confirm what I thought--that snuffles bacteria is present to some extent in every rabbit and just preys on those with weakened immune systems due to stress, age, etc.

The general consensus that I'm siding with is that all rabbits have the bacteria capable of developing it but only weak rabbits have tendency to become seriously ill. I also will breed her at least once and see if her kits seem more healthy or less healthy. She is just a pet-quality breeder although since her mane isn't as full as I like but the buck she'll be with has perfect mane. If the kits have trouble then I'll retire her and relocate her to a family member who wants a pet rabbit just for a pet. That way if she continues getting sick I will still be buying medicines and ensuring her care rather than dumping her on someone who might not be able to handle something like that whether warned or not.

Either way she'll be well taken care of and live a happy rabbit life. I haven't seen or heard a sneeze out of her or anyone else for over a week and I think if she had the serious virulent snuffles she'd be dead or at least worse by now.

Thank you everybody for the advice and encouragement.

CYG

 

[Genipher]

I've read that and then the next thing I'll read will say there is no cure, almost nonexhistant treatment success and it will always be passed on to kits and make them sick. That's what I mean by conflicting information, and seriously the veterinarians are both respected with farm/meat animals--including rabbits. They both gave me advice with the idea that the rabbit had the worst form of snuffles and considering how many other animals I've had treated successfully by both of them I'm taking their advice.

I don't believe she ever had this Pasteurellosis. Maybe they aren't called "colds" but I've read dozens of other things that make a rabbit sneeze and have extremely minimal nasal discharge (as in next to none). I don't think my other rabbits are in danger because a rabbit who came from the same breeder as her is in very good health, has never sneezed once in all the time we've had them; none of the others--all of which were within ten feet of my "sneezing doe" for more than a month--are showing symptoms. It has been two weeks since we quarantined her and no one is sneezing even now. She is very young--two of her hutch neighbors are barely 8 weeks old--and none of them are over 4 months, so symptoms would likely be popping up in the young rabbits quicker especially since one of the 2-month rabbits escaped and was chased around the yard for hours and never sneezed--I think chasing her around like that was stressing enough to give ME snuffles much less the rabbit.

I am very new to rabbits and I think that every little change in the wind has me paranoid, but I believe that my rabbit had allergies/a cold/etc etc and is fine now. If my entire herd gets snuffles I guess I will have learned my lesson but I don't believe that will be the case. Hopefully some of you are right and this is just something all rabbits have in a dormant form and there's no reason to go killing every sneezing rabbit on my property--though there's been only one lol.

Thanks again

CYG

I am New to rabbits too and yes with conflicting information I would be a little paranoid too. Taking the vets advise was wise, but sometimes they can be a little off as well. Lots of unknowns in rabbits. But it's not just rabbits. Reading all the goat information, there are a lot of conflicting information there as well. Along with sheep, cows, horses, etc.

The air has been getting worse over time. More and more people are coming down with allergies that never had them before. Now just think what the animals are going through. They are affected as well. My 12 year old dog started with allergies at 5. Have been giving him benadryl as prescribed by his vet to help with the ichy eyes and ears. Along with the sneezing. I had to do something because when he sneezed, he sneezed so hard he constantly was hitting his nose on the floor.

Snuffles is contagious and is life threatening. Unfortunately allergies show the same symptoms sometimes. It's really hard to tell. But I would have done the same thing as you.

Hope all stays well.

It does seem like more and more people (and animals) are having allergy problems. Along with the environment, I wonder if it's what we're eating and what we're feeding our animals, that causes the allergies. Most of us (it seems) get as healthy of feed as we can get...but the GMO crap is sneaking its way in.
I've heard that a raw meat diet can keep dogs from getting allergies. Maybe even cure the allergies? I haven't totally researched it but I've heard some "rumors". Do you know anything about it?

 

[Ms. Research]

I've read that and then the next thing I'll read will say there is no cure, almost nonexhistant treatment success and it will always be passed on to kits and make them sick. That's what I mean by conflicting information, and seriously the veterinarians are both respected with farm/meat animals--including rabbits. They both gave me advice with the idea that the rabbit had the worst form of snuffles and considering how many other animals I've had treated successfully by both of them I'm taking their advice.

I don't believe she ever had this Pasteurellosis. Maybe they aren't called "colds" but I've read dozens of other things that make a rabbit sneeze and have extremely minimal nasal discharge (as in next to none). I don't think my other rabbits are in danger because a rabbit who came from the same breeder as her is in very good health, has never sneezed once in all the time we've had them; none of the others--all of which were within ten feet of my "sneezing doe" for more than a month--are showing symptoms. It has been two weeks since we quarantined her and no one is sneezing even now. She is very young--two of her hutch neighbors are barely 8 weeks old--and none of them are over 4 months, so symptoms would likely be popping up in the young rabbits quicker especially since one of the 2-month rabbits escaped and was chased around the yard for hours and never sneezed--I think chasing her around like that was stressing enough to give ME snuffles much less the rabbit.

I am very new to rabbits and I think that every little change in the wind has me paranoid, but I believe that my rabbit had allergies/a cold/etc etc and is fine now. If my entire herd gets snuffles I guess I will have learned my lesson but I don't believe that will be the case. Hopefully some of you are right and this is just something all rabbits have in a dormant form and there's no reason to go killing every sneezing rabbit on my property--though there's been only one lol.

Thanks again

CYG

I am New to rabbits too and yes with conflicting information I would be a little paranoid too. Taking the vets advise was wise, but sometimes they can be a little off as well. Lots of unknowns in rabbits. But it's not just rabbits. Reading all the goat information, there are a lot of conflicting information there as well. Along with sheep, cows, horses, etc.

The air has been getting worse over time. More and more people are coming down with allergies that never had them before. Now just think what the animals are going through. They are affected as well. My 12 year old dog started with allergies at 5. Have been giving him benadryl as prescribed by his vet to help with the ichy eyes and ears. Along with the sneezing. I had to do something because when he sneezed, he sneezed so hard he constantly was hitting his nose on the floor.

Snuffles is contagious and is life threatening. Unfortunately allergies show the same symptoms sometimes. It's really hard to tell. But I would have done the same thing as you.

Hope all stays well.

It does seem like more and more people (and animals) are having allergy problems. Along with the environment, I wonder if it's what we're eating and what we're feeding our animals, that causes the allergies. Most of us (it seems) get as healthy of feed as we can get...but the GMO crap is sneaking its way in.
I've heard that a raw meat diet can keep dogs from getting allergies. Maybe even cure the allergies? I haven't totally researched it but I've heard some "rumors". Do you know anything about it?

I wish it was just the environment, but with the introduction of steriod injections to help growth (more meat) this also could be a factor. And the food that we eat has those steriods in them. That's why I want to be self sufficient. I want to know what is in my animal. I want to know what's in my vegetables and fruits. You know this is just being noticed in the animal world. Look what they are doing to our children with so many steriods. It's really scary. They will tell you about the bad parts of an athlete on steriods, but at the same time, give your child an injection that is steriod based. This is also a factor which is NOT being addressed.

Just last month, two infections that were steriod resistance popped up here and overseas. Gee, isn't that wonderful. They keep using these steriods at a whim thinking that's the answer. Now take into account the steriods in your body, the steriods in your food, and whatnot in your water, no wonder we have allergies. And the animals also.

Don't know where we are heading but the more steriods you use, the less your body will be able to defend itself against.

 

[Genipher]

I agree, Ms. Research. Because of those very things I only buy meat that is "good" (bison, etc.) and "organic" fruits and veggies. Same reason I wanted to raise meat rabbits. Eventually I want to get to a place (literally) where we can have our own milk cow, eggs, and fruits and veggies. I don't like not knowing what's in our food and I espeically don't want my kids eating things that could, potentially, cause cancer or obesity or ADD or...

I also find it frustrating that doctors and other health professionals don't know anything about herbs. I've been able to "cure" ear infections with onion juice and control my son's asthma with a bentanite clay mixture. I'm learning more and more and one day hope to never darken the door of a doctor's office again!

 

[Ms. Research]

I agree, Ms. Research. Because of those very things I only buy meat that is "good" (bison, etc.) and "organic" fruits and veggies. Same reason I wanted to raise meat rabbits. Eventually I want to get to a place (literally) where we can have our own milk cow, eggs, and fruits and veggies. I don't like not knowing what's in our food and I espeically don't want my kids eating things that could, potentially, cause cancer or obesity or ADD or...

I also find it frustrating that doctors and other health professionals don't know anything about herbs. I've been able to "cure" ear infections with onion juice and control my son's asthma with a bentanite clay mixture. I'm learning more and more and one day hope to never darken the door of a doctor's office again!

When you have multi-trillion dollar pharmacuetial (sp?) companies throwing hundreds of thousands of dollars at Doctors to help pay off their education bills, it's hard to say no. It's really a shame though that doctors have a price. Know all about herbs. Did wonders and still do with us. There are though some things no drug or herb can stop.

I'm with you on producing my own food. Because you know what's in it. And yes, lots of process foods have properties of cancer causing. Just at a very small amount. Just look at the recent reports on Children's Apple Juice. And there are so many more, that we will not hear about. Also the ADD you bring up. Lots of coloring that brings on this in children. But it's easy just to slip them a pill instead of watching their diet which IS a cure to ADD.

I just don't get it. Is it laziness or greed?

 

[oneacrefarm]

Ok so how expensive is a test for this bacteria Pasteurellosis? I don't want to kill her if she can have a happy pet life. Also how do I go about convincing people to take a rabbit with a chronic disease? I'd rather get her tested since she's got a great personality and would be a good brood doe as far as I can tell now, but reality does have to set in and I can only spend so much on a test.

Thanks for the advice and apologies to the OP for sort of taking over. I thought it would be better than adding a separate thread about the same-ish subject.

CYG

Over 70$. I had a rabbit that had snuffles, he was kept outside in a hutch far away from my other rabbits though. His nose was always clogged up and he could hardly breathe, his paws had yellow crust on them from wiping his nose. He was the sweetest rabbit ever, but I hardly handled him because I knew he had Snuffles and I feared my good Show and Breeding rabbits would get it from him. That winter though, at 5 months old, he passed away. I think since his nose was always runny, the moisture in his nose froze and caused him to get too cold and freeze to death. But, not sure on the cause. I had another rabbit outside also in a hutch and he was just fine that winter. I get the bunny from a family in our 4-H club and the mother the said seemed to sniff a lot and they said she had allergies, but none of their other rabbit had it. So, I'm not sure how their other rabbits ended up not getting it, but it is very contagious.

HE probably died of pneumonia. This a common secondary illness associated with pasteurella.


Shannon

 

[oneacrefarm]

My vets didn't say she had the deadly form they treated it as if she did. They gave me information in a "worst case scenario" form. And yes there's a lot of conflicting information and yes I'm also done reading about it. I had another breeder confirm what I thought--that snuffles bacteria is present to some extent in every rabbit and just preys on those with weakened immune systems due to stress, age, etc.

The general consensus that I'm siding with is that all rabbits have the bacteria capable of developing it but only weak rabbits have tendency to become seriously ill. I also will breed her at least once and see if her kits seem more healthy or less healthy. She is just a pet-quality breeder although since her mane isn't as full as I like but the buck she'll be with has perfect mane. If the kits have trouble then I'll retire her and relocate her to a family member who wants a pet rabbit just for a pet. That way if she continues getting sick I will still be buying medicines and ensuring her care rather than dumping her on someone who might not be able to handle something like that whether warned or not.

Either way she'll be well taken care of and live a happy rabbit life. I haven't seen or heard a sneeze out of her or anyone else for over a week and I think if she had the serious virulent snuffles she'd be dead or at least worse by now.

Thank you everybody for the advice and encouragement.

CYG

CYG,

One thing to keep in mind is that "Snuffles" is a subjective term and can include many illnesses, including pasteurella. Respiratory Pasteurella is characterized by sneezing, thick white discharge from nose or eyes, matted front paws and possibly coughing if pneumonia develops. This bacteria lives so deep in some of the nasal passages that antibiotics won't reach because of inadequate blood flow to the area. I lost my entire herd earlier this year to this because of one rabbit that I brought home. I quarantined it for two weeks and it started sneezing with a clear discharge in the third week. I did all the same reading as you and I figured allergies, but then the discharge turned white and I pulled her out of the barn but it was already too late. All of my breeding animals and three litters of kits eventually came down with it over the next three months. I tried treating with antibiotics but the symptoms only came back after a couple weeks. For me, a sneeze warrants a second look. Sneeze again and you are out of the barn in isolation while I watch you. Any white discharge or matted paws and you have a one way ticket to freezer camp. I just cannot afford to take the chance, and I won't pass you along to anyone else. I am not saying cull at the first sneeze, I had one sneezing because of a two inch piece of hay up his nose, but it is not something anyone should dismiss out of hand. I would keep that rabbit isolated for another month or so, just so you can tell if the antibiotics worked (Bordatellosis would be cured by antibiotics) or if it just temporarily suppressed the symptoms. Take care of your other bunnies first, don't trade bottles/crocks and change your clothes after you care for her. As they say, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure!

Shannon