Teresa & Mike CHS - Our journal

[Mike CHS]

I consider Teresa and I a couple of the most patient people that we know but Maisy is getting awful close to pushing past the point of wanting her to succeed.

I opened the blinds and was looking out at the sheep and said how good Maisy has been following the sheep around the new pasture. One of our lambs was limping this morning and fairly severely. We checked him out all over for the obvious and could find nothing other than sensitive leg joints. Later in the day we saw another lamb limping and then started to seriously worry about something going on in the field.

It was 5 minutes after I had said how good she was doing and I look out and she has the lamb that was limping by the hind quarter yanking on it pretty hard.

She is back to being tethered while we think about what her future here is going to be. The one lamb was hurt bad enough that I seriously thought about putting it down this afternoon but decided to give him one more day.

She doesn't mess with our ewes but they will flatten her butt - the lambs don't have a defense so we are literally at a loss. There is so much of the pasture that can't be seen from the house and the area I saw her do the deed is normally not visible at this time of day but I was enjoying watching the sheep graze. At least until I saw our sweet dog trying to cripple a lamb.

We have seen several ads for LGD's that stated "Good with adult sheep" and I'm thinking now that I know why.

Sorry for the rant but I have spent so much time with this girl that it's almost like a slap in the face.

 

[Bruce]

Maybe @Southern by choice has some ideas on this.

 

[Mike CHS]

I did a bunch of reading and I'm seeing things on "dangle sticks" and so many things. I really don't want to write her off but this lamb was hurt bad enough that I was going to put it down and to say the least when I saw her chewing on the lamb I SAW RED!

 

[NH homesteader]

I don't blame you for being angry and sometimes you need to vent before you can think about "fixing" it. I don't have advice, but I'm sorry this happened. The ewes don't defend their lambs when they're this old? Not that they should have to defend them from their guardian, just curious.

I hope you are able to figure out the best plan of action... Whatever it may be.

 

[Mike CHS]

Once the lambs are a couple of months old they are on their own. We will work it out since we don't want her to become a problem somewhere else but it is frustrating, especially when you reach the point where you think she has it figured out.

 

[Hens and Roos]

sorry to hear, hope the lambs recovery

 

[Southern by choice]

I consider Teresa and I a couple of the most patient people that we know but Maisy is getting awful close to pushing past the point of wanting her to succeed.

I opened the blinds and was looking out at the sheep and said how good Maisy has been following the sheep around the new pasture. One of our lambs was limping this morning and fairly severely. We checked him out all over for the obvious and could find nothing other than sensitive leg joints. Later in the day we saw another lamb limping and then started to seriously worry about something going on in the field.

It was 5 minutes after I had said how good she was doing and I look out and she has the lamb that was limping by the hind quarter yanking on it pretty hard.

She is back to being tethered while we think about what her future here is going to be. The one lamb was hurt bad enough that I seriously thought about putting it down this afternoon but decided to give him one more day.

She doesn't mess with our ewes but they will flatten her butt - the lambs don't have a defense so we are literally at a loss. There is so much of the pasture that can't be seen from the house and the area I saw her do the deed is normally not visible at this time of day but I was enjoying watching the sheep graze. At least until I saw our sweet dog trying to cripple a lamb.

We have seen several ads for LGD's that stated "Good with adult sheep" and I'm thinking now that I know why.

Sorry for the rant but I have spent so much time with this girl that it's almost like a slap in the face.

I did a bunch of reading and I'm seeing things on "dangle sticks" and so many things. I really don't want to write her off but this lamb was hurt bad enough that I was going to put it down and to say the least when I saw her chewing on the lamb I SAW RED!

I will certainly not make a friend here and you have not asked for my advice but I will give it anyway.
It is NOT the dog.

You should know by now after so many threads, so many posts you have read and followed that dogs fail because key things are missed.
You may be patient but that is not enough.
DOGS ARE PACK ANIMALS!

You would not have a solitary sheep but it is the same concept.
You do not have the skill to evaluate a dog to see if it could be a solitary animal, given the fact that she was with other dogs and was not a problem this should speak volumes.

I am not trying to be a jerk but truth is you have in some ways set her up to fail.
She needed a partner you did not get her one.
She has nothing and no one.

What you see with your eyes may be what you think she is doing yet often it is not what is really happening. In this case maybe she is chasing etc the lambs.
I just know there is usually a whole lot more going on.

This is why people should get dogs from breeders that know what they are doing , place dogs appropriately, and can help especially first time LGD owners. Usually people go off craigslist and go for the cheapest dog they can find. Spending thousands on livestock or herding dogs but somehow think the LGD is not worth researching and selecting.

You took that care with your herding dogs but not your LGD.
You had/have a mentor for your sheep. You took that care.
You had/have a mentor for your herding dogs. You took that care.
Sad thing is a good LGD is the most valuable asset on any farm.
At this point you are taking the issues with the dog personally and that is a huge mistake. They pick up on this and where there is no respect things generally get worse. I truly am surprised.

I know I may have already way overstepped here but truly a LGDog may not be the right choice for you.
I have seen over the years those that are very strongly working with herding ( actual herding) dogs generally do not do well with LGDogs.
Generally they are too controlling and get frustrated easily and have no real ability to read or work with LGDogs.
They are the antithesis of a herding dog and generally human personalities do not click with the guardian breeds.

To actually read you post that you would consider dangle sticks is absolutely heart wrenching. These ignorant idiots that suggest contraptions, dangle sticks etc are nothing but a bunch of wanna be's and have no business telling anyone how to raise a LGD. It means they FAILED.
If THEY had to use them then they failed. There is a person that has had 4 LGD's consecutively... got their 5th... gee EVERYONE of those dogs failed. EVERY ONE! Yet the person was giving advice on how to raise a LGD. EVEN BRED A LITTER! All those dogs got shipped off because they "failed". Word is out and no one will ever sell this person a dog again. Sadly many read alot of what I post and I see the lingo everywhere yet they have no clue and no experience but it makes them sound like they do. Anyone can regurgitate it doesn't mean they have the skill.
Breaking the dog's spirit is catastrophic.
Yes, dangle sticks are used throughout Europe but they are very different, and done right not the stupid stuff these people suggest.

Some dogs do not make it as LGD's but the majority that didn't make it are because they were failed in one way or another.


No LGD should chew on livestock. 100 % in agreement with you! So why is she doing this? And don't believe this BS that the dog is young and not matuer. That is BS too!
Tethering her is making things worse as she has no companion and now she has pent up energy then she comes off tether etc and .....

If you give Maizey up I would consider taking her. I am considering Babs Anatolian right now .... but she may have someone in CA for her.
Tiggs could use a buddy.

 

[Mike CHS]

SBC - thanks for all of the input but you make a few assumptions that aren't correct. Maisy was not a cheap Craigslist dog and the reason we went with her was that she was supposedly a successful LGD as a lone dog. No argument that we should have done things differently though in hind sight.

We will work it out - she has become part of the family and we would give up the Aussie before sending her away.

 

[frustratedearthmother]

I've been trying to think back to when Maddie was a young 'un. She's over six now and for most of her life she was a lone LGD. It worked for us/her, but now I'm wondering if there was any one thing that made her successful. We probably just got lucky, but a couple things come to mind.... I had other dogs that Maddie had play time with. She would burn off a lot of energy playing with the other dogs. We had two Westies that would go to the pasture with me every morning and every evening on rat patrol. Maddie would always take a break and play with them. I remember one of the Westies would always grab her tail and Maddie would spin so fast that the Westie would be airborne! Just makes me wonder if Maisy would be more laid back with the lambs if she was just a little bit tired and had a chance to get some of her enthusiasm re-directed away from the lambs? Also, and this might sound silly, but summer is coming! A big ol' hairy dog (at least at my house) isn't nearly as exuberant when it's really hot outside.

Just throwing these things out there because they popped into my head.

I really hope things work out for ya'll. I think all your BYH friends are in your corner and rooting for Maisy to make it as a successful LGD!

 

[Mike CHS]

Thanks FEM. We have a couple of LGD folks that we have been in constant contact with so one way or another it will work out. She does get a lot of interaction with our other dogs outside of the sheeps pen.

Watching her this morning when she thought we couldn't see her she is only picking on the castrated male lambs. Probably not but it almost looks like she is trying to cull the defective (castrated) boys.