Thinking about an LGD, need advice

[EllieMay]

I agree that the GPs are better dogs around people/children.
They're very laid back and are good LGDs.
I also have two Kangals (similar to the Anatolians) and I would NOT trust my Kangals around children or a stranger unless I am there.
The Kangals just have not been domesticated enough in this country to be as laid back as a Grt Pyr.
But since I am female and run a farm all by myself and live alone (when hubby is off for weeks at a time), I feel safer having the Grt Pyrs that will bark at ANYTHING and the Kangals that will KILL if necessary.
For the average farm with an average or low predator load, I would definitely go with a GP.

 

[goodolboy]

"similar to the Anatolians" Welllll, see how much I pay attention.

 

[Southern by choice]

I have 9 children... I trust my "toli" as well as all my pyrs with them.
I really believe that integrating your LGD's into family life is important.
The female pyrs are fine with their family they are just very fierce when it comes to outsiders. My f pyr will not even let you near the fence. However if I bring her out she will say hi to you and is fine.
For some reason the "toli's" get a bad wrap and people are very intimidated by them. I do think the f toli's are more laid back.

 

[EllieMay]

No worries, G'olboy, it comes with old age.

And, Southern, you're right that it depends on the dog and also how well it's socialized.
I don't have any kids and I'm sure my dogs will be okay around them if I'm there to supervise (especially with smaller kids) to make sure they're not spooked or have their food/bone taken away from them (that sort of thing). I did have a neighbor come over with his little grand-daughter in his arms. She wanted to get down to pet the doggie. When he lowered her down, my female Kangal began to growl, so I told him to just hold his grand-daughter.

And my dogs are relatively safe with people that I bring to the farm, I just would be fearful of an intruder at night lurking in my pasture.

I came home after an auction late one night. Before the auction I quickly ran out to feed the dogs and left their bowls in the pasture area.
So when I came home after the auction, I went straight from the car into the pasture to retrieve the bowls. I was not wearing my headlamp (as I usually do).
The dogs and sheep were apparently sleep in the barn since they were not in the pasture when I entered throught the gate.
I got about 1/4 of the way down when all of a sudden my female Kangal came barreling around the corner of the barn straight towards me.
All I saw were teeth and fangs shining in the moonlight and she was fiercely barking/growling/snarling with her hair standing up and coming at me full force!
I was like HOLY MOLY!
My dog got about half way towards me when she realized it was me and slowed down her pace (put the fangs away) and lowered her head with tail wagging as she approached me.
All I could think of was "what if I were an intruder she did not know?"

 

[Amp]

How are GP with people approaching the fence line? We often do have play dates or random family members stopping by with kids wanting to go see our goats. I've just began my research so I want to really be realistic about what to expect. I've tried looking up breeders in my area but not having any luck. I'm in Central Alabama between Tuscaloosa and Birmingham. What do you consider adequate fencing? I've heard it's best to have two from different litters. Is there a better time of year to get them. We thought this spring before it got scorching hot or fall.

 

[Southern by choice]

My one team of 2 pyrs... no one is coming near the fenceline...ever. We also cannot take anyone in that field unless they are put up. The other team guards theirs as well but this team is GP and Anatolian and we can tell them it's okay and bring someone in.

In all honesty when you have a lgd...no one else's children should ever go in your field ever! Children especially small children screech scream and run...these behaviors are unacceptable to an LGD, unless it is their own family members. The dogs may not attack but will tend to "run" them down.

I can take al my LGD's out of their fields and they will say hi ... the one team has particular traits that cause them to not really care about anyone but family. The other team has different traits and because of that they enjoy being "showboats" when we bring them out to see a visitor.

I strongly believe in teams, I am NOT overly excited about siblings. However I thing the most imporatant factor is that yoy do not have 2 of the same dogs with identical behavior traits. That is usually where the issue lie. Also M/F teams are best in my opinion.

Our Anatolian F is the most laid back girl you'll ever see, yet quick to jump into action etc. Her line has produced some amazing dogs. The males in her line are exteremely M/M aggressive...so all males must be separated. The F tolis were all fine together. They have one male that guards the property...no fenc stay on the property and never leaves.

I share that because there are stereo types that go with the GP and Toli's. None of my pyrs bark all night, only when necessary, they do not dig, and hot wire for a season corrected them from trying to climb a fence. Outside of a fence..they MUST have a lead on them or they will go! The Toli has been worked with as far as barking.

A good LGD does not need to bark incessantly to do it's job. Sadly many think that makes a good lgd..not true..just makes for younot getting sleep and pissing off your neighbor.

We introduced ALL our LGD's to the house and they all have grown up with house time. They are taught basic obedience. Come ( which all LGD's are selective about ) Sit. Down. Stay- that's more for in the house though. The point is not to overtrain but to have some manners. LGD's have a big heart and LOVE their people so jumping tends to be something that has to be really worked with.

Most tight farm fencing is fine. Hot-wire ayt the top is good, if they are digging then a strand at the bottom will work too. The Toli breeder had 3 strand hot wire..that's it. Most of the time it wasn't even on, his dogs always stayed put. The level of "escape" and wondering will vary from dog to dog.

Any time of year really, you will need to spend time with them.

 

[Amp]

Thank you very much for taking the time to answer. I actually prefer having an excuse to keep people out of the pasture. I've been made to feel the bad guy several times when I wouldn't let kid's in that I knew would chase the goats. My first thought was a M/F GP team. How would you go about picking two with different traits? Also, I'm following another post you are giving advice in with another lab dog. Would there come a time when they would not want that dog in the pasture? What if they are very used to being around the dog and the dog is not interested in the goats. I just want to know what to expect with our 3 year old lab that is used to being out in the pasture with us.

 

[Amp]

I just read your LGD page so I thought I would answer the questions

The area the dog will be in, the size 1.75 acre pasture fenced in and a barn with attached pen 30x100

Will the dog be moved Not really planning on it but we do have a buck pen 30x100. Could the LGD be moved?

If the dog needs to move from pasture to pasture not currently but we do have access to 10 acres so there is a possibility if we created more pastures later

Will the dog stay with one group and then over time be moved with another groupno, planning on keeping with does

The set up of the farm House, barn and pens are on one acre. Side pasture of 1.75 acres will be used for goat pasture. We currently have free ranging chickens but are working on them a fenced run area

Is the dog going to be far from people house etc No

Is the dog off-site where you will see the dog once a day, with little human interactionNo

How large of an area is being guardedreally just the 1.75 acres

What kind of animals to be guardedmainly goats

What other dogs on propertyon our property a yellow lab. My parents have a small Jack Russell that they frequently bring to our house Not sure how that would go over

What kind of predatorsWe can hear coyotes close but never seen one and never lost an animal. Our main issue is several wild dogs. They have killed cats and neighbors Turkey

Predator intensity

Is the farm open to the public with lots of visitorsWe frequently have visitors. The UPS guy comes everyday and our family all lives within a few houses.

 

[goodolboy]

We have two teams of 3 GP. Male, his son, and a female(not related). the second team is 3 of the males sons(one still intact). The first team is much more people friendly. We keep them on the farm that most of our customers come to when picking up lambs. these three are great with kids also, but the dogs are very big. small kids seem to be frightened by that. Nobody is EVER left alone with our dogs. The females we have owned have all been harder to keep on the farm, the males have never tried the fence.

The second team is at our larger farm. All three boys stay with the flock and only come up when me or the DW comes up. They don't like strangers at all. They will just stay out in the field with the sheep and bark. These dogs don't get the attention the other team does so they're alot more skiddish. I've never seen them be agressive toward people just skiddish.

Both teams do their jobs great. The ability to socialize with humans is deffinately learned. I personally don't have any use for a female GP. They are smaller than the males and frankly, I just haven't seen a good one I want gaurding my sheep. Just my opinion.

My older male was raised with the family dogs, and was great. I just don't see a problem there if you work with the dogs.

Hope I was some help.

 

[Amp]

thank you