Thoughts on this calf’s confirmation

[Youngfarmer2019]

One thing I would like to say that may help you in the show ring. I had a friend who was part of 4H and he showed a calf and outranked everyone when it came to controlling his calf in the ring all because he listened to one small piece of advice I gave him. Now, having never shown ANY animals (yet having spent over half my life around animals, i understand their cues) I expected him to dismiss my advice, but he took it and outshone everyone. Not trying to toot my horn, please dont take this as bragging, I DO NOT mean it that way.

My advice is this: When training your calf to lead, ASK him/her to come with you, do not FORCE him/her. Animals can be high strung and sensitive, once you break a bond or trust, it takes a while to get it back (happens with EVERY animal, there is no exception, even humans)
It may seem like a very simple piece of advice but it works miracles, it will take a while for the calf to listen, but work with him every day. ASKING your calf to move with your step is so much more beautiful to watch in the ring than FORCING your calf.
Trust me, the judge will notice...good luck, keep us updated on how you do!

 

[CaliFarmsAR]

One thing I would like to say that may help you in the show ring. I had a friend who was part of 4H and he showed a calf and outranked everyone when it came to controlling his calf in the ring all because he listened to one small piece of advice I gave him. Now, having never shown ANY animals (yet having spent over half my life around animals, i understand their cues) I expected him to dismiss my advice, but he took it and outshone everyone. Not trying to toot my horn, please dont take this as bragging, I DO NOT mean it that way.

My advice is this: When training your calf to lead, ASK him/her to come with you, do not FORCE him/her. Animals can be high strung and sensitive, once you break a bond or trust, it takes a while to get it back (happens with EVERY animal, there is no exception, even humans)
It may seem like a very simple piece of advice but it works miracles, it will take a while for the calf to listen, but work with him every day. ASKING your calf to move with your step is so much more beautiful to watch in the ring than FORCING your calf.
Trust me, the judge will notice...good luck, keep us updated on how you do!

Thank you for the advice, I really appreciate it. That has been my goal, I don’t like forcing them to walk with me, it’s harder forcing them and definitely looks bad. The bull calf is still a bit skittish of people, so for him, it’s very important that I stay clam and control my energy (I’m a person with high energy and animals that are more quiet tend to be anxious around that type, form my experiences).

 

[CaliFarmsAR]

Also, what age can I wean my calves? They are both still on their moms. My heifer is going to be 5 months on the 17th and the bull is over 4 months

 

[farmerjan]

I've got 50+ years experience with cattle. Not with show stock, but everyday experience. I am NOT trying to damper your enthusiasm...
DO NOT keep him a bull. If he is not registered, purebred with statistics behind him, all he will be is a nice bull at best. At worst, he will be an uncontrollable male that is hormone driven and will hurt someone.

The advice given to you by @Youngfarmer2019 is fine..... and I agree that working with and asking an animal to do something is preferable to "making them" do something. BUT...... a bull is a different ballgame.
First off, I do not think that 4-H allows bulls to be shown by a member. Rightly so. You will have absolutely no way to control or stop him if he gets a notion when he is 6 months or more, and weighs 6-8-900 lbs. DON'T kid yourself. Second, a bull will not respect just being nice.... It is bred into their hormones and psyche to be dominant... YOU will not be the dominant one of the two.
Third... he is one of a thousands bulls born every day in this country. By the time you got him big enough to be used for breeding at 15-20 months, you will have more in him than he will ever be worth. EVER.... Who would he be bred to?
Fourth.... a bull will not be satisfied to only breed one or 2 or 20 cows... once they are bred, his instincts will have him looking over the fence, testing the wind, looking for more cows in heat. Their SOLE PURPOSE is for breeding. On most farms that have bulls, if they let them run with the cows full time, then they are constantly checking them out to find some cow receptive to them. On the farms that have defined breeding seasons, so the calves are all born in a certain time frame, then the bulls are taken away from the cows after 60-90 days, and put together in a "bull pasture" and there are no cows close by to tempt them. They go through the dominance thing for a few days and then just exist as a bachelor group until they are needed to sire calves again.

We had a bull that was a registered Red Poll. Sweetest disposition bull ever and I could go out in the pasture and take a bucket and load him in the trailer without anything else. I trusted him as much as any bull I would ever trust... NEVER turned my back on him..... he loved to be scratched behind his ears, neck rubbed.... BUT he was a BULL.....at 12 or 13 his arthritis got bad and my grown son and I cried when he had to go because he would not get through another cold winter with his joints.
Have 2 now that are pushing 10 years old. Have had them since they were 15 months. They are not threatening and I have bopped them on the nose for being pushing with a bucket a few times... BUT I never turn my back on them. The are used for breeding purposes... I do not worry about being out in the pasture with them and their cows.... but I ALWAYS have an eye to a safe place if they get a notion. I never made pets out of them.

Every bull we have ever had is hopefully better than the stock we have and will put better calves on the ground than the cows are. You strive for better genetics.
We have raised about 5 bulls in the 30 years we have had a good sized cow herd. 2 were out of registered cows, by a registered bull. It is not worth the money we put into them although one did go on to sire some nice calves. We are better off keeping the best female calves to be replacements and spending the 2500-5,000 we spend on a bull to use as a breeder with records behinds the parents so we have an idea of what we are getting.
We have one now; his momma prolapsed and died and I raised him on a nurse cow. She was a nice heifer. Nice dispositioned calf. Until he was about 8 months, weaned off and then we had to figure out where to keep him. Can't keep him with the heifers, he will breed them too young. Can't keep him with the cows because he is never happy with the already bred cows because his hormones are telling him that he should be breeding something. He is not happy with the steers because he now is bullying them.... Finally put him in the bull pasture with 4 bulls twice his size to knock him down a peg or 2. He is not turning out as nice as he looked at 6 months and now is too big to castrate so he is basically useless. And because he had so much time with people, he has no respect or fear and although he was not allowed to get away with anything, he still has no basic thought that we are the alpha..... and without any information behind him of what his sire and dam are as far as records, he is not worth anything but killing price because no one will want him as a breeder. You pay for records behind potential herd sires. He has none. And I would not trust him because he has no fear or respect for us. My son is 6'6" and he has some clout and he could not stop him if his life depended on it. I wouldn't even try. This bull is NOT MEAN.... he comes to call... when it suits him... he will go into the trailer with a bucket... if it suits him... but if he decides he doesn't want to... a hot shot is the only thing that will get him to do what he doesn't want to do. I would not trust him as much as I trust the older bulls because he is young and too familiar with humans.
People that show bulls not only have halters, but rings in their noses because the nose is the most sensitive part of a bull... and a freight train will not stop one that decides he is going to do something.

Get him castrated and have an animal that has no hormones to make him cantankerous or hard to handle... and safer for you to work with and more likely to want to do things to please you.
I don't know how many cows you have now.... or how much experience is in your family with cattle. We are running 150 momma cows and have 7 bulls now because we rent pastures where we have to have bulls to put out to breed them. We have had as many as 200 cows and 10 bulls. I know guys with as many or more cows and bulls. Some are great to work around and many are into the registered business and raise bulls to sell. But keeping a bull because he is a nice looking calf is no good reason to keep him a bull. He needs to be far outstanding above the other animals to even consider keeping him a bull. With some statistics behind him to justify the reasoning. If bulls were in short supply, it would be one thing... if he was a rare breed and no other males in a million miles to use to keep up the breed; okay; but a nice bull is just a nice bull until he isn't.

 

[Baymule]

@farmerjan is not being mean, she’s just telling you the straight up facts. That’s years of experience being shared with you. I know y’all have a farm, your family may have many years of experience also. Farmerjan may have brought out some points that you haven’t thought about.

 

[CaliFarmsAR]

I've got 50+ years experience with cattle. Not with show stock, but everyday experience. I am NOT trying to damper your enthusiasm...
DO NOT keep him a bull. If he is not registered, purebred with statistics behind him, all he will be is a nice bull at best. At worst, he will be an uncontrollable male that is hormone driven and will hurt someone.

The advice given to you by @Youngfarmer2019 is fine..... and I agree that working with and asking an animal to do something is preferable to "making them" do something. BUT...... a bull is a different ballgame.
First off, I do not think that 4-H allows bulls to be shown by a member. Rightly so. You will have absolutely no way to control or stop him if he gets a notion when he is 6 months or more, and weighs 6-8-900 lbs. DON'T kid yourself. Second, a bull will not respect just being nice.... It is bred into their hormones and psyche to be dominant... YOU will not be the dominant one of the two.
Third... he is one of a thousands bulls born every day in this country. By the time you got him big enough to be used for breeding at 15-20 months, you will have more in him than he will ever be worth. EVER.... Who would he be bred to?
Fourth.... a bull will not be satisfied to only breed one or 2 or 20 cows... once they are bred, his instincts will have him looking over the fence, testing the wind, looking for more cows in heat. Their SOLE PURPOSE is for breeding. On most farms that have bulls, if they let them run with the cows full time, then they are constantly checking them out to find some cow receptive to them. On the farms that have defined breeding seasons, so the calves are all born in a certain time frame, then the bulls are taken away from the cows after 60-90 days, and put together in a "bull pasture" and there are no cows close by to tempt them. They go through the dominance thing for a few days and then just exist as a bachelor group until they are needed to sire calves again.

We had a bull that was a registered Red Poll. Sweetest disposition bull ever and I could go out in the pasture and take a bucket and load him in the trailer without anything else. I trusted him as much as any bull I would ever trust... NEVER turned my back on him..... he loved to be scratched behind his ears, neck rubbed.... BUT he was a BULL.....at 12 or 13 his arthritis got bad and my grown son and I cried when he had to go because he would not get through another cold winter with his joints.
Have 2 now that are pushing 10 years old. Have had them since they were 15 months. They are not threatening and I have bopped them on the nose for being pushing with a bucket a few times... BUT I never turn my back on them. The are used for breeding purposes... I do not worry about being out in the pasture with them and their cows.... but I ALWAYS have an eye to a safe place if they get a notion. I never made pets out of them.

Every bull we have ever had is hopefully better than the stock we have and will put better calves on the ground than the cows are. You strive for better genetics.
We have raised about 5 bulls in the 30 years we have had a good sized cow herd. 2 were out of registered cows, by a registered bull. It is not worth the money we put into them although one did go on to sire some nice calves. We are better off keeping the best female calves to be replacements and spending the 2500-5,000 we spend on a bull to use as a breeder with records behinds the parents so we have an idea of what we are getting.
We have one now; his momma prolapsed and died and I raised him on a nurse cow. She was a nice heifer. Nice dispositioned calf. Until he was about 8 months, weaned off and then we had to figure out where to keep him. Can't keep him with the heifers, he will breed them too young. Can't keep him with the cows because he is never happy with the already bred cows because his hormones are telling him that he should be breeding something. He is not happy with the steers because he now is bullying them.... Finally put him in the bull pasture with 4 bulls twice his size to knock him down a peg or 2. He is not turning out as nice as he looked at 6 months and now is too big to castrate so he is basically useless. And because he had so much time with people, he has no respect or fear and although he was not allowed to get away with anything, he still has no basic thought that we are the alpha..... and without any information behind him of what his sire and dam are as far as records, he is not worth anything but killing price because no one will want him as a breeder. You pay for records behind potential herd sires. He has none. And I would not trust him because he has no fear or respect for us. My son is 6'6" and he has some clout and he could not stop him if his life depended on it. I wouldn't even try. This bull is NOT MEAN.... he comes to call... when it suits him... he will go into the trailer with a bucket... if it suits him... but if he decides he doesn't want to... a hot shot is the only thing that will get him to do what he doesn't want to do. I would not trust him as much as I trust the older bulls because he is young and too familiar with humans.
People that show bulls not only have halters, but rings in their noses because the nose is the most sensitive part of a bull... and a freight train will not stop one that decides he is going to do something.

Get him castrated and have an animal that has no hormones to make him cantankerous or hard to handle... and safer for you to work with and more likely to want to do things to please you.
I don't know how many cows you have now.... or how much experience is in your family with cattle. We are running 150 momma cows and have 7 bulls now because we rent pastures where we have to have bulls to put out to breed them. We have had as many as 200 cows and 10 bulls. I know guys with as many or more cows and bulls. Some are great to work around and many are into the registered business and raise bulls to sell. But keeping a bull because he is a nice looking calf is no good reason to keep him a bull. He needs to be far outstanding above the other animals to even consider keeping him a bull. With some statistics behind him to justify the reasoning. If bulls were in short supply, it would be one thing... if he was a rare breed and no other males in a million miles to use to keep up the breed; okay; but a nice bull is just a nice bull until he isn't.

Thank you for all the advice on this, I really appreciate it. Sorry I didn’t get back to you, it has been crazy here.

Being honest, at first, I was bummed because a did want to keep him a bull, but after reading this through and giving deep thought, I decided I will make sure he gets banned. I think it will help with his little temper he is getting (he’s been pushy and I’m assuming it could have to do with him being a bull). Again, thank you so much!

 

[CaliFarmsAR]

@farmerjan is not being mean, she’s just telling you the straight up facts. That’s years of experience being shared with you. I know y’all have a farm, your family may have many years of experience also. Farmerjan may have brought out some points that you haven’t thought about.

I didn’t think of all that, so I am very grateful to @farmerjan for sharing the advice they did

 

[farmerjan]

Hope you had a nice Christmas.... Did you get all the cold snowy miserable winter weather that seemed to hit 75% of us???

 

[CaliFarmsAR]

Hope you had a nice Christmas.... Did you get all the cold snowy miserable winter weather that seemed to hit 75% of us???

Thanks! I hope you did as well. Yes, we did. Friday was miserable, got up to 19° that’s it.

 

[farmerjan]

I think I posted it on my thread but we were -2 and up to maybe 15??? Hasn't hit 32 in 3 or 4 days. Not fun but at least most of the ice is off the trees... from the wind more than thawing. Been tough to be this cold this early in the season for us here. And the wet cold rain/sleet/ice... had some calves born but they seem to be okay so far....