Tips on Training an Older Dog

[FSBFL-LGD]

Warning: This is a long post! Hello! I'm a new member and just joined. I recently acquired an LGD for my small acreage (10 acres) that contains mostly sheep and some cattle. He is a Karakachan and is approximately 2.5 years old. Long story, but I think the background is necessary so I'll try to make it as short as possible. I got my LGD when I was searching for one due to predation problems in my area that start around February. Our neighbors have lost up to 20 adult sheep in one night from coyotes and I wanted to get ahead of the potential issue (my own personal farm is new, but I've been taking care of sheep and helping out at a farm for years). I came in contact with the breeder of this LGD (who is very reputable from my understanding), but a dog from him wasn't going to work out because they were located too far away (over 9 hours). Fast forward a few months and a person they sold a couple of dogs (male littermates) to is looking to rehome them and they were located only a couple of hours from me. Both dogs were intact males that lived on her farm property about 45 minutes from her house but she would bring them back to her home every day. The 20 acre property they were at had horses, goats and cattle. She was downsizing her farm which is why she was rehoming them. She had Karakachans before so they came pretty well socialized, but obedience wasn't the best (not bad, but could use some work). We ended up only keeping one because they began fighting each other and they also had separation anxiety from each other. Since we also have herding dogs, we felt it was best to keep and train one since we are new to LGDs and to avoid any fights between them that we couldn't handle. The previous owner took the other LGD back (that was a previous agreement). The dog we kept immediately changed for the best, his demeanor calmed down, he began bonding with us, obedience improved, etc. We also neutered him because we wanted to minimize wandering. So, now I want to make sure I am training him correctly to eventually guard our sheep. Below is what we have done so far (and yes, we have been in contact with the breeder with our questions and he has been very helpful with advice, but I thought additional advice wouldn't hurt). Also, some things to note: We don't live on our acreage, we live about 40 min away until we build a house in the next 1-2 years. The property has fencing with barbed wire on the top that is about a year old. We are also in the process of installing hot wire on the top. We have installed 13 cameras and some spotlights. We also visit it everyday for few hours to work on it and tend to the animals.

What we've done so far:

- When we first got him the breeder told us he needs to bond to us first and get used to our other dogs (we have herding dogs) so he lives in a 5x5 enclosure in our house.
- Initially we kept him in there and would interact with him a few times a day until he seemed to get used to us. We didn't want him to become a "pet" so we built in "interaction" time everyday instead of just letting him have free access to the house. He also went out into our backyard for exercise (about a 1/2 acre backyard) a few times a day.
- We practice basic obedience (no leash pulling, no walking out the door before us, sitting before being fed, etc.)
- We bring him to the property with us and have him in a 10x10 pen that is fully secured (chicken wired underneath and on top to prevent escape).
- We started with feeding the animals in front of him for exposure
- Then we took him on walks on the property with a long line. Initially he was calm but would then burst and try to play with the sheep (i.e. butt in the air and running). We would give a loud "heyyy" or "ACKK" to get him to stop. He responded well to this and doesn't do it anymore.
- Then, when we visited the property we would place him in a pen next to another pen with all of the sheep. We would also bring him into the pen with the other sheep to let him sniff them, more exposure, etc. He did well and didn't try chase, jump, etc. He just sniffed them and eventually laid down. The sheep were also calm and didn't mind his presence.
- Now, whenever we visit we put him into the same pen with the sheep on a long line that is tied up. We only do this if we are close by in case we need to correct anything.

This brings me to now. He is now almost fully recovered from being neutered. We had a 2 week delay because he ripped open his incision. He has been with us at our house and back and forth to the property for about 3.5 weeks. Below is what I plan to do to continue training, but I wanted to check if it made sense. I'm open to suggestions. Also, there is a small part of me that is worried that we got him too old to truly bond, is that possible?

Next we will:
- Take him to be permanently on the property where he will stay in the secured 10x10 enclosure so he can be around the livestock 24/7. Even though we have 10 acres, it is divided into three fields. We will make sure the sheep are in the same pasture as him. The pasture is about 3.5 acres. When we go the property, we will have him loose with the livestock so we can correct anything and slowly get him more used to what his job is and to continue bonding. We will also probably have a drag on him in case he decides to chase. Between my husband and I, we are at the property everyday anywhere between 3-8 hours, so he will have a lot of time outside of his enclosure. We also have a camera in his actual enclosure to fully monitor him.
- After about a month of this, we were planning to have him loose with the herd and we will also camp on the property for about 3 nights to make sure he isn't chasing livestock and trying to escape. We also have a GPS collar we will put on him to monitor his whereabouts.

Questions:
1. Will the above plan work?
2. Is he too old to bond and is this a waste of time?
3. We have hotwire on the top of then fence, but not the bottom. We are worried about him digging out, how do we prevent this? My understanding is this won't happen if he is properly bonded, but how do we ensure that?
4. Can we ever trust him with our other dogs? They have smelled each other through the crates and are around each other all day (my dogs are loose while he is in the enclosure and vice versa). They seem pretty used to each other and barely acknowledge each other. There haven't been any "growling incidents". We are fine keeping them separated and not taking a chance, but thought I would check if it is possible
5. Anything else I should consider?

 

[SageHill]

We have quite a few people here who have LGDs and a ton of experience with them. I'm sure they will have ideas.
I just have herding dogs European style herding (not border collie, kelpie, McNab, etc). So I can't really give any LGD advice.

 

[Baymule]

Do you have a barn, or night pen where you close the sheep up at night? Can you pen him next to but not in with the sheep at night?

If you are worried about him digging out, then run a hot wire at the bottom. You are already running a hot wire at the top. Is the fence sheep and goat wire with 4” holes?

2 1/2 years old is not too old to train him to sheep. He has most if not all the puppy stupids out of his system, sounds like perfect opportunity to me. He might be more receptive to training.

I like the camping at night idea. Plus the GPS collar and cameras. Y’all have carefully thought this out.

I have 2 Anatolians, had 3, but lost one to unknown illness a month ago. So I’m down to a 2 year old male, Buford, and a will be 5 year old in February spayed female, Sheba. I have 25 acres and raise Katahdin hair sheep. I’m located in East Texas. My farm dog, Carson, is half Labrador and half Great Dane. He is not allowed in the fields, that’s Anatolians domain. The one that just passed away was very fierce and would attack Carson, Buford followed his lead. Buford growls at Carson from his side of the fence.

My advice to you is to respect your dog’s working space. Do not mingle the farm dogs with the working dog, in the sheep fields. Also be aware that as members of the pack, if your farm dogs chase the sheep, your working dog probably will not correct them. They may be just fine outside the working environment, such as in your yard or occasional visits in the house.

I have threads for each of my dogs, with their name in the title. Why don’t you make this your dog’s journal, put his name in the title. That way, all his information is in one place instead of scattered about in multiple threads. It makes it easier for you to see his progress and for us to refresh our memory when you may have a problem and need help. I kinda learned that myself by having several threads on one dog, oops.

 

[FSBFL-LGD]

Thanks for the replies! See my response to your questions (and more questions from me in blue )

Do you have a barn, or night pen where you close the sheep up at night? Can you pen him next to but not in with the sheep at night? - No, the steel building/barn will begin construction in a couple of weeks and will take a couple of months to complete. Sheep are currently out on their own which is the reason we got the LGD. We haven't had any issues in the past 3 months, but we are aware that in the Spring coyotes are an issue in the area. We do have a large pole barn that we've made into an enclosed arena, but it used for horse and dog training and we also keep our 2 donkeys in there a few times a week for "dry" lot time to keep them from getting obese. We got the donkeys to help with predators but one of them is aggressive with the sheep and although she seems used to them now, we don't want to risk leaving them unattended. We put them in pastures where the sheep are not grazing to hopefully also be a deterrent for predators. My husband is also now attached to them, so they're staying

If you are worried about him digging out, then run a hot wire at the bottom. You are already running a hot wire at the top. Is the fence sheep and goat wire with 4” holes? - Yes the fence is the one with 4" holes. It is about 4.5 ft tall and has a strand of barb wire about 4 inches above the top (if that makes sense). The reason I haven't run hot wire on the bottom is the weeds, which from my understanding will impact whether it works or not. I live in Florida so keeping on top of the vegetation can be a challenge.

My advice to you is to respect your dog’s working space. Do not mingle the farm dogs with the working dog, in the sheep fields. Also be aware that as members of the pack, if your farm dogs chase the sheep, your working dog probably will not correct them. They may be just fine outside the working environment, such as in your yard or occasional visits in the house. - This makes sense. He does seem like he wants to interact with them and I feel bad since he doesn't have any dog interaction. I was going to begin taking him on walks with each of my dogs around the property with help with my husband so we can keep some distance between them. Do you think that might help? Again, I'm completely fine just keeping them separated, but it would be nice to have them together when my herding dogs aren't working and just hanging out with us.

I have threads for each of my dogs, with their name in the title. Why don’t you make this your dog’s journal, put his name in the title. That way, all his information is in one place instead of scattered about in multiple threads. It makes it easier for you to see his progress and for us to refresh our memory when you may have a problem and need help. I kinda learned that myself by having several threads on one dog, oops. - I might try this! I don't typically write into forums but that might be helpful.

Additional questions:
- What are your thoughts on the PVC triangle collar to prevent digging and getting out. Does it work? Are they any potential issues with the dog accidentally hurting themselves with it?