Training or Introducing a Pyrenese puppy

[Southern by choice]

Although we have always supervised our LGD's from day 1 with the goats, chickens, ducks, and geese they never tried to hurt or play with them UNTIL they were about 5 months then they wanted to play with the chickens. My 1 pyr HATES the geese. We have 3 pyrs and 1 anatolian on the farm. They are in different areas. the oldest pyrs are 10 months now and generally leave the chickens alone, however the chickens will walk through the fencing or fly over (they are free range). The dogs pretty much ignore them now, but there is still that occassional, "oh,something to play with". Just pulled my brabanter out of my one boys mouth. Chicken is alive... I'm wondering if it's something about the brabanter, she should've been dead 5x over now. lol
Seems were always pullin her out of a dogs mouth! They are very sensitive to what lives in their particular field. there are about 15 chickens that are always in the back field (nothing we can really do about that- I'm not penning my birds) the dogs are fine with them, but if a strange chicken comes through then the "game is on". They also know their goats. Two of the dogs rotate so they are a little more tolerant. My 1 male pyr even though we moved him often, to get used to being moved, just never adapted to moving around (through different fields) so he has a permanent field. The geese are very guardy so there is always conflict with the 1pyr and them... a real hate/hate relationship. We've taken a few losses, which really stinks, but I consider them acceptable losses. They are all young and still learning. LGD's were never really "designed" to be chicken guardians so it definitely
takes a good bit of work, we want them to take out the hawks but when they are young, a bird is a bird. Our young female pyr is the only one of our LGD's to not kill a bird yet. She is 6m old.

we have over 150 chickens EVERYWHERE so to have only lost a few isn't too bad.

 

[Bbutter]

Southern, what do you mean by "never adapted"? How did you know? I want to know what to look for.

 

[Southern by choice]

By never adapted I'll explain it this way... We knew over the long term the goats would be moving continually (meat goats mostly) using electric fencing so that there would always be good forage and as not to kill the trees by stripping them. We have permanent fencing for some of the fields. Because of our objective we knew to start young with rotating the dogs, all but the one has adjusted to that and we can put them anywhere we need them, except one male pyr. He ONLY wants to be with the bucks in the buck field, he will do anything to get back to that field. 2 other areas adjoin (to a degree) the buck field, if he is moved to one of those other fields he will lay up against the fencing and not move, paw , hollar, even get shocked by the wire, anything to get to his field. He doesn't even want to come out of his field to play. The only time he gets excited about coming out is if it's for "puppy class". I'm a trainer so I require basic obedience for every dog, LGD or not although the program is adjusted for individuality- meaning adjusted for lgd's . He loves loves loves class! Very good on lead (keywords- ON LEAD)
He has been this way since 9 weeks old- just part of his personality. His brother, completely opposite! I rather work with his "wiring". When I first went to view them I noticed the difference immediately, one appeared to be a watcher the other showed more characteristics of a patroller. Since a wee pup he would walk the perimeter as soon as we put him in the field, his brother watched always looking... They are 10 months and still the same. I still don't trust them full time in elec. fencing. Big Knuckleheads Hope I explained that good enough.

 

[Blarneyeggs]

We just got our first GP. We have no fencing or large animals. We have approximately 50 chickens. Our Pyr is a 9 week old female. We have had her staying in a temporary goat shelter (which she managed to get out of last night!) and we play with her and walk the perimeter of the property with her each day at least once. The breeder suggested we get her one or two goats to bond with. Goats between 3-9 mos. not too old so that the goat doesn't hurt her, and not too young so she doesn't hurt the goat.

I'm thinking of getting cattle panels for an enclsure for the goats, and using a 3 sided wood shed with a floor for a shelter for the goats.

Any guidance and/or suggestions would be a blessing. Thank you.

-Martha in PA

 

[Grazer]

Hi Blarneyeggs/Martha,

so you got a GP to guard your chickens and are you guys now getting the goats for yourself or just for the dog? I'm sorry for not understanding that part.

As far as for the puppy, it's a good idea to keep her separated from the chickens for the next 18 months or so when you guys are not around (until you are sure she won't harm them when you can't supervise, because it's easier to prevent a bad habit with dogs than it is to fix it later on).
I find this article very helpful on how to handle that: http://www.anatoliandog.org/poultry.htm

I don't know how remote you guys live, but you may want to fence at least one part of your property, to deter the predators & prevent your dog from roaming and upsetting the neighbors when she gets a little older.

Do post some pictures of your little pup when you have time, I bet she's just adorable

 

[Blarneyeggs]

Ok, I'm going to try this again. Seems I gave too much background and didn't get to the point.

What kind or age goats would you introduce a 9 week old Great Pyrenees to? I don't want the puppy to hurt the goats or vice versa.

I have some mature mini Nubians lined up that have had exposure to LGDs, but had really wanted Nigerian Dwarfs and can't find any that have had exposure to LGDs. I'd like to get the goats sooner than later so that our Pyr can bond with them. She was brought up with goats before we got her.

Thank you for the Anatolian link, Grazer and we plan to to put an underground electric fence around the property to keep our girl in, and an electric netting fence to move our goats from pasture to pasture. We are aware of the 18 month old rule, it is exactly why we are putting the 'cart before the horse' so to speak with our LGD, we are anxious to let our chooks free range again. I'd like to post pics, but am not sure if I'm allowed yet. I'll try.

Nope. Pic didn't work.

 

[Roll farms]

I personally prefer to start LGD pups w/ an older dog and / or adult goats. I started our first pup (obviously didn't have the 'older dog' option then) w/ adult goats. Starting them w/ kids sounds great in theory (so they can grow up together...how sweet) but when the dog outgrows the goat and plays too rough, he can hurt them.

We have a doe named Penny who 'trains' our LGD's now. Yes, she butts them and knocks them on their butt, and they learn a healthy respect for goats that way.

If you have young goats that run from the puppy, you've got a recipe for disaster. A goat that won't take any crap will quickly teach the pup NOT TO CHASE IT.

When Gus was young and tried to chase goats, Edge would scruff him....or he'd bark / play / bounce and try to get her to join him and she wouldn't. So he'd give up and go back to his chew toys / learning from mom.

I haven't seen it mentioned but lots and LOTS of interactive chew toys are a great idea. No need to chew up a chicken if there's plenty of bones / rawhide lying around.

We bring our LGD into the barn to eat when we feed the goats, too. No fighting over food that way, and it gives us a chance to feel through those thick coats / find any foot probs, etc.

 

[Grazer]

Thanks Blarneyeggs, I understand your question now better.
I would agree with Roll farms about getting adult goats.
Especially with the part about young goats running from puppy. The thrill of chase is very self rewarding and addictive for dogs, so prevention before such behavior even starts is of course the key.
Yes it's wise to observe and when necessary correct the puppy for the first 18 months in order to avoid any problems later on, it really pays off.
I also like what Roll farms said about chewables, they really help a bored, teething puppy. I personally really like bully sticks, since they're all natural (at least the ones I've come across), durable and from what I understand much safer than rawhides.


P.S. a small FYI for anyone reading my posts on this forum and wondering why so many of them are edited , I edit my posts for spelling and bad grammar/sentences that make no sense (English isn't my first language)

 

[Blarneyeggs]

I'm wondering how everyone else is doing with their GPs? We are keeping our girl completely separate from the chickens, we now have a goat and keep her separated from the goat so far, will introduce her slowly on a lead.

I'm really walking on egg shells with the training thing. I thought I read before to get these dogs out in the community as pups to socialize them. I'm feeling now that this is incorrect (feel free to correct me, those with more experience). She's not aggressive at all with company, and is totally freaked out when I take her away from the house. I'm feeling like I should support her need to be at the house 'overseeing'. She is definitely more of a 'watcher' than a 'patroller'. I'm walking the perimeter with her everyday at least once and sometimes she will not accompany me. Drags way behind continuously looking back over her shoulder at the house. She's set herself up on the porch....I'm not sure if this habit should be broken or not.

Thank you all for any input.


Grazer, I SOO wish I could speak and understand more than one language. What a blessing.

 

[Blarneyeggs]

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