Bruce
Herd Master
Gotta look out for yourself first Bay!
U S A: SHEEP INDUSTRY. Revive it or just let it slowly die?
- Thread starter The Old Ram-Australia
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Baymule
Herd Master
Yeah, and we raised 2 hogs this time and sold every bit of it. But we still have pork from last year and need to eat it up. And we have a couple of leg of lamb from last year, plus a lot of beef. So we are pretty well set for meat for the rest of the year. Oh, and I raised all those Cornish Cross (butchered 44, sold 10) and still have chicken too.
frustratedearthmother
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You are SET!
Mike CHS
Herd Master
Anthony, I see lambs on Facebook all of the time for pretty good prices. A lot of people, (us included) will sell a sheep to someone and then take it in for processing. The buyer then works their cut list and pays for processing.
@Latestarter - anytime in September is good. We are prepping for breeding this week and making an appointment at the processor. I don't want to wait too long and take a chance of heading into deer season (at the processors). I'll send you a PM Joe.
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The Old Ram-Australia
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G'day, found an interesting post on my LinkedIn feed.http://texasfarmbureau.org/american-lamb-board-releases-seasonality-white-paper/
It seems there is some hope yet for US lamb producers? T.O.R.
It seems there is some hope yet for US lamb producers? T.O.R.
High Desert Cowboy
True BYH Addict
I’ll add my two cents. Utah is about 66% federal land, meaning we should have plenty for grazing leases and logging and of course enjoying a weekend camping. Unfortunately federal mismanagement doesn’t make those practices very easy. Last year we had a terrible fire just south of my home where there was way too much to burn as they wouldn’t allow any logging or new grazing permits after years of being warned that was going to happen. To the west, federally protected wild horses strip the land bare and continue to damage our federal (and private) lands largely unchecked. And today the state is wanting to transplant big horn sheep for hunting to the mountains north of my home with the demand that no sheep leases be given on that range to prevent disease between wild and domestic animals.
Government mismanagement aside, you also have the disagreements between cattle men and sheep herders. The range wars caused a very ugly schism between the groups that stands today. While I have ancestors who brought sheep to the states from New South Wales 150 years ago, I grew up with my cow ranching buddies who referred to sheep as range maggots and owning sheep was along the lines of kissing your sister. Many cattle ranchers I’ve known their family owned sheep 100 years ago but over time converted to cattle and while they’ll talk about their family history in cattle those sheep are swept under the rug. Fortunately the enemy of my enemy is my friend and the two have started to help one another in regards to government mismanagement. Several of the cattlemen who graze the mountains north of me own private ground up there as well, and have leased that land to the Utah Wool Growers Association to prevent the introduction of big horn sheep to the area.
That’s not to say there aren’t large scale sheep ranchers, I have a good friend who’s family runs thousands of sheep and a branch of the family I just became reacquainted with just south of me who runs several thousand head. South of us is prime sheep country, and when first settled that’s all that anyone owned because of the larkspur. About 150 yards from my back door to the south is .25 million acres of federal land with a few leases for cattle but a little to the south you start seeing sheep grazing.
While we do have all that federal land private land is expensive, in my area one acre with water can go for $14,000 and you can’t keep your animals on the lease year round, they’ve gotta come home sometime and trying to purchase enough
Property alone will cost more than you can afford. Most anyone who runs sheep still can only afford it because they inherited it, and the inheritance tax makes that miserable as well. As has been stated many people don’t want to work that hard and would rather take that land and sell it and walk away, which causes all sorts of grief for the family as those that want to stay in the business have to come up
With money they don’t have to buy out siblings to keep it all together. It’s not unusual for a ranching families to have a sibling or two they don’t speak about because of these feuds.
As to taste. In 1908, the average American spent half his salary on food. Today, they spend about 9.8% of their salary on food, meaning they can afford to be picky. And lamb has been lumped with mutton to be a poor tasting meat. Take my wife for instance. I love lamb and will readily eat it (course I also think Rocky Mountain oysters taste good so maybe my tastes are off) and she won’t even try lamb because of stories her grandpa, a marine during WWII, shared about his experience eating mutton in the service. In fact there was a large decrease in sheep consumption following the Second World War because of similar experiences. That stigmatism translated over to lamb. Now it costs more to produce because of low demand, driving up prices so that the average person won’t try it because they don’t need to spend that kind of money. I’ve personally never bought it from the store, I’ve had the benefit of knowing that handful who will hook me up. My beef buddies do the same on occasion.
Could we see more sheep being produced in America one day? I believe it will some serious changes to make it possible. With better federal management, manageable private land prices, and an ability to convince the public that lamb should be served at your next barbecue it could happen. But as of today there are too many factors in play against a young man walking into an ag lender and saying he wants to start a sheep ranch
Government mismanagement aside, you also have the disagreements between cattle men and sheep herders. The range wars caused a very ugly schism between the groups that stands today. While I have ancestors who brought sheep to the states from New South Wales 150 years ago, I grew up with my cow ranching buddies who referred to sheep as range maggots and owning sheep was along the lines of kissing your sister. Many cattle ranchers I’ve known their family owned sheep 100 years ago but over time converted to cattle and while they’ll talk about their family history in cattle those sheep are swept under the rug. Fortunately the enemy of my enemy is my friend and the two have started to help one another in regards to government mismanagement. Several of the cattlemen who graze the mountains north of me own private ground up there as well, and have leased that land to the Utah Wool Growers Association to prevent the introduction of big horn sheep to the area.
That’s not to say there aren’t large scale sheep ranchers, I have a good friend who’s family runs thousands of sheep and a branch of the family I just became reacquainted with just south of me who runs several thousand head. South of us is prime sheep country, and when first settled that’s all that anyone owned because of the larkspur. About 150 yards from my back door to the south is .25 million acres of federal land with a few leases for cattle but a little to the south you start seeing sheep grazing.
While we do have all that federal land private land is expensive, in my area one acre with water can go for $14,000 and you can’t keep your animals on the lease year round, they’ve gotta come home sometime and trying to purchase enough
Property alone will cost more than you can afford. Most anyone who runs sheep still can only afford it because they inherited it, and the inheritance tax makes that miserable as well. As has been stated many people don’t want to work that hard and would rather take that land and sell it and walk away, which causes all sorts of grief for the family as those that want to stay in the business have to come up
With money they don’t have to buy out siblings to keep it all together. It’s not unusual for a ranching families to have a sibling or two they don’t speak about because of these feuds.
As to taste. In 1908, the average American spent half his salary on food. Today, they spend about 9.8% of their salary on food, meaning they can afford to be picky. And lamb has been lumped with mutton to be a poor tasting meat. Take my wife for instance. I love lamb and will readily eat it (course I also think Rocky Mountain oysters taste good so maybe my tastes are off) and she won’t even try lamb because of stories her grandpa, a marine during WWII, shared about his experience eating mutton in the service. In fact there was a large decrease in sheep consumption following the Second World War because of similar experiences. That stigmatism translated over to lamb. Now it costs more to produce because of low demand, driving up prices so that the average person won’t try it because they don’t need to spend that kind of money. I’ve personally never bought it from the store, I’ve had the benefit of knowing that handful who will hook me up. My beef buddies do the same on occasion.
Could we see more sheep being produced in America one day? I believe it will some serious changes to make it possible. With better federal management, manageable private land prices, and an ability to convince the public that lamb should be served at your next barbecue it could happen. But as of today there are too many factors in play against a young man walking into an ag lender and saying he wants to start a sheep ranch
Bruce
Herd Master
Poor reason! My stepfather was in the 101st airborne in WWII. NOT a lamb fan for the same reason as your DW's grandfather. Even though it wasn't the mutton he remembered, not fondly, from his service, the smell is similar enough to put him off. BUT your lamb is not her grandfather's mutton. Too bad she is not willing to recognize that.
greybeard
Herd Master
So.the reason Americans don't buy and eat much sheep meat is now being cast upon WW2 veterans? Ya'll gonna have to come up with something better and more realistic than that.
A total of 12,209,238 Americans were in military service by September 2, 1942, representing 9 percent of the 131,028,000 U.S. population. Before the war's end the number that had served increased to around 16 million or 11% of the 140 million US population.
How many of those in uniform actually went overseas to serve in an area where they could partake of this delicacy? According to The National WW2 Museum,73% or 11.6 million.
Subtract the 400,000 that were killed in WW2 and the % drops (dead people don't come back to tell how nasty the sheep smelled or tasted) .
So, 11.2 million troops came back and forever changed how over 130 million people ate?
Fast forward 73 years to today and there are only 620,000 of that generation still alive, and the youngest (assuming he was 18 and entered service in 1945) is at or nearly 90 years old. (avg age of today's ww2 vet is 92)
So......a bunch of 92 year old men (less than 1% of the current population) are now keeping the US from eating lots more sheep.....
You need to go rustle up a different reason, because that dog just don't hunt.
(suggestion:
start with 'people don't like it's odor and taste', then you'll be on the right track)
Yes I know. One can become accustomed to eating anything and maybe even one day come to like it. I have known people that eat all kinds of things and say it's good, even possum, raccoon and rat if they try hard enough. Balut is considered a delicacy some places..
A total of 12,209,238 Americans were in military service by September 2, 1942, representing 9 percent of the 131,028,000 U.S. population. Before the war's end the number that had served increased to around 16 million or 11% of the 140 million US population.
How many of those in uniform actually went overseas to serve in an area where they could partake of this delicacy? According to The National WW2 Museum,73% or 11.6 million.
Subtract the 400,000 that were killed in WW2 and the % drops (dead people don't come back to tell how nasty the sheep smelled or tasted) .
So, 11.2 million troops came back and forever changed how over 130 million people ate?
Fast forward 73 years to today and there are only 620,000 of that generation still alive, and the youngest (assuming he was 18 and entered service in 1945) is at or nearly 90 years old. (avg age of today's ww2 vet is 92)
So......a bunch of 92 year old men (less than 1% of the current population) are now keeping the US from eating lots more sheep.....
You need to go rustle up a different reason, because that dog just don't hunt.
(suggestion:
start with 'people don't like it's odor and taste', then you'll be on the right track)
Yes I know. One can become accustomed to eating anything and maybe even one day come to like it. I have known people that eat all kinds of things and say it's good, even possum, raccoon and rat if they try hard enough. Balut is considered a delicacy some places..
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Bruce
Herd Master
I don't think anyone is blaming WWII mutton for a serious downturn in lamb consumption. But obviously there are some that don't eat it for that reason. And any that don't because of personal experience with military mutton in WWII are a small percentage of the current population. I do suspect that @High Desert Cowboy's wife is an anomaly with that reasoning though.
greybeard
Herd Master
Or she, like myself and most of my extended family (one of my b-i-l excepted) .........just don't like it, and I've tried it every way it can be cooked.
(B-I-L eats it because his wife told him if he insisted on raising them, he was gonna have to eat it)
(B-I-L eats it because his wife told him if he insisted on raising them, he was gonna have to eat it)
