Update on the Buck with dumb owner...**UPDATE**

[Oakroot]

Have that in your sales contract. If they violate it, you could take them to court, but it may be more money and aggravation than it's worth.

In most states things like that are not enforceable in contract. You can put it in there and it can give you some leverage and something to threaten with but it often won't hold up in court.

 

[Southern by choice]

Have that in your sales contract. If they violate it, you could take them to court, but it may be more money and aggravation than it's worth.

In most states things like that are not enforceable in contract. You can put it in there and it can give you some leverage and something to threaten with but it often won't hold up in court.

No, that is so not me. I stay away from breeders of ANY kind of animals that have that much of a control issue. When I see breeders that have a long list of agreements for the buyer I just laugh and keep going! Breeders like that tend to be very arrogant, super controlling and judge everything. "Only they know what their doing" and they tend to think everyone else is a moron. I've seen this with dogs, goats, chickens, and horses. I've seen breeders who dictate feed, vet care, even down to "if you move you must notify me and update your current info and your new vets info" ....WHAT?!?!?!? CRAZY!! That is one thing if you are in a co-ownership agreement.

I prefer to have good dialog and always an open line of communication. With my poultry I always encourage free-range, however that is not always an option for all of my customers. Although I hate to see penned chickens on dirt in a little 6x10 coop 24/7, and I don't think it produces the healthy eggs that most people are keeping chickens for in the first place. I do know the people I sell to will love them, spend time with them, give them excellent care and WILL call if they need any kind of help. Still don't like them penned but just because they keep their chickens differently than I do, doesn't make them incapable or bad chicken owners. Not being preachy just trying to give an example.

The goat world seems quite different though, it is strange how many people buy goats on a whim. This is what worries me. I'd rather put a buck in the freezer than it go through home after home.

 

[allanimals21]

so I found my copy of the "contract". All its says is "i (me) agree to $50 for use of breeding through Nov1st. If anything happens to him I agree to pay for him $200. Then I signed and she wrote "I agree to this" and signed.

 

[ksalvagno]

Sounds like you have your answer.

 

[allanimals21]

So now she calls me today and leaves a message saying that she has been having a hard time finding another goat. She doesn't understand why she should have to find another when she has him. She told me she feels like I'm bullying her and she talked to a sherriff and is taking me to court if I don't bring him back my tuesday. Or she will come get him but I have to pay her gas. I doubt it. There has to be something I can do to protect him and those 2 does from being bred back so soon. I mean should be allowed to own an animal you can't touch? If she can't touch him like she told me she couldnt(and she said she didn't the whole 4 months she had him) should she be allowed to own him? How can you properly take care of an animal if you can't handle it? His collar is a fine example. Plus she insisted that goats don't need vaccines or deworming. That her goats are healthy. Any ideas?

 

[Southern by choice]

So sorry about this situation! I know it stinks but you have a contract, legally you are obligated to return the buck. I know that is not what you want to hear and there is considerable emotion involved but from a legal standpoint this may end up VERY bad for you.
I would also take pictures of the buck and have her sign a paper stating that the buck was returned in good health yada, yada, yada.

 

[SkyWarrior]

You're asking advice here, and perhaps I'm going to give you bad advice. Or advice you may not want to hear. I'm not a lawyer and I have no legal counsel here. There aren't laws to prevent stupid animal owners. True neglect and inhumane treatment, yes, but not stupidity.

Almost every goat owner (except one) I've gotten goats from doesn't vaccinate or deworm. Many of the goats I've gotten have never been handled, or hardly handled. As deplorable as we may find the situation, you can't just take an animal without paying for it. That's theft. You can't possibly expect to win if the person sues you.

As for breeding those does, you can't stop her from doing that. Those are her animals. She can do with them as she pleases. He is her buck too, even if you had owned him at one time. This is the way things work. You sell an animal and you have no control over what that person does to the goat. The person can sell the animal, butcher it for food, breed it to whatever, send it to auction, or do whatever is within the bounds of the law. Goats are livestock and property.

As I said earlier, I would've told her he had gotten out and hit by a car. I'd pay her $200 and then that would've been that. As it stands, she wants $250? If I were going to follow this through, I'd pay her the $250 and get a signed bill of sale, and be done with her. Consider the extra $50 to keep her out of your hair, and keep you from having to consult a lawyer, which is much more expensive. If the amount is off the table, then consult a lawyer and find out what you can and can't do. I suspect you'll probably be handing the buck back.

Of course, if he were wethered... Nah....

 

[allanimals21]

You're asking advice here, and perhaps I'm going to give you bad advice. Or advice you may not want to hear. I'm not a lawyer and I have no legal counsel here. There aren't laws to prevent stupid animal owners. True neglect and inhumane treatment, yes, but not stupidity.

Almost every goat owner (except one) I've gotten goats from doesn't vaccinate or deworm. Many of the goats I've gotten have never been handled, or hardly handled. As deplorable as we may find the situation, you can't just take an animal without paying for it. That's theft. You can't possibly expect to win if the person sues you.

As for breeding those does, you can't stop her from doing that. Those are her animals. She can do with them as she pleases. He is her buck too, even if you had owned him at one time. This is the way things work. You sell an animal and you have no control over what that person does to the goat. The person can sell the animal, butcher it for food, breed it to whatever, send it to auction, or do whatever is within the bounds of the law. Goats are livestock and property.

As I said earlier, I would've told her he had gotten out and hit by a car. I'd pay her $200 and then that would've been that. As it stands, she wants $250? If I were going to follow this through, I'd pay her the $250 and get a signed bill of sale, and be done with her. Consider the extra $50 to keep her out of your hair, and keep you from having to consult a lawyer, which is much more expensive. If the amount is off the table, then consult a lawyer and find out what you can and can't do. I suspect you'll probably be handing the buck back.

Of course, if he were wethered... Nah....

I'm not trying to just take him. I told her I would send her the money today....well then she goes all nuts again and threatens to take me to court. She is just being ridiculous. She wanted nothing to do with him until she thought she could make money on him. She can't even sell the 3 kids she has out of him already. I have no problem handing him back if she is going to treat him properly. Its just frusterating this woman can make up her mind. Like I said we had agreed upon $200 because I told her I would pay $150 for him + $50 for using him. Now she knows everything about breeding since I've last talked to her and he is worth so much more apparently.

 

[Pearce Pastures]

Sorry this went so badly for you. Coming from a family with several lawyers, I know that she would prevail if it did go to court and you could end up with your name tarnished with other charges (sorry again because I know it feels so wrong that she could treat her animals that way). If she will let you take him for another 50 bucks, you might want to part with your money if it will mean a peace about this for you. Otherwise, it might be painful, but returning him to her and knowing you tried to do right by him is probably the safest course.

 

[allanimals21]

Sorry this went so badly for you. Coming from a family with several lawyers, I know that she would prevail if it did go to court and you could end up with your name tarnished with other charges (sorry again because I know it feels so wrong that she could treat her animals that way). If she will let you take him for another 50 bucks, you might want to part with your money if it will mean a peace about this for you. Otherwise, it might be painful, but returning him to her and knowing you tried to do right by him is probably the safest course.

I have no problem paying the $250 the problem now is after our agreement on the phone the other day she has since called me and said she will take me to court.