Updated: Ketonic doe had 2 full term bucklings

[WhiteMountainsRanch]

So she is not progressing as fast as I want but I don't know how fast I should expect progress. (I have seen other posts where it took people several days to get blood sugar really back up to normal) I was able to get ketosis strips and test her. Slight to small amounts of ketones detected. Temp is still staying steady and normal. I have seen her have three normal bowel movements today so I hope that means she is eating SOMETHING. She has been interested in coming out and grazing. This morning she did not want to actually eat anything but this afternoon she had probably 15 smile bites of grass. The husband also said she had a bit of warm water on her own too.

That sounds like progress, I would make sure she has her favorite feeds available and just keep doing what you are doing and hope she keeps improving.

 

[alsea1]

I hope this goes well.
Keeping my fingers crossed for you

 

[Oakroot]

So this is day three of heavy care and day 5 or 6 of her being sick and while I keep seeing promising signs she really is not progressing. For every good moment she has just as many bad. I am pretty sure I am going to start her on Predef in the next 24 hours. She is a really good doe and important to my program. I think I need to put her first. If I was hearing strong heat beats from babies that would be one thing but they have always been very faint with this doe so she probably has a mess of small kids in there which means there chances where never great anyways. At this point I am trading hope in babies for straight hope in getting her better.

 

[alsea1]

I'm sorry to hear things are not looking better.

 

[Oakroot]

Predef is not induction just much increased chance of early labor. So there is a chance she could still go full term. Not great but a chance. To much more of this and she won't have enough in her to go through labor. It sucks but I think it is probably the right call at this point.

 

[aggieterpkatie]

So what's the reason for Predef? I'm not familiar with that.

If she has ketosis, it's likely because she does not have enough room in her rumen for enough feed to support her and the growing babies. The babies grown and compress the rumen, which doesn't allow her to take in enough food, even if she ate all day long. If you haven't treated her with propylene glycol, I'd start and keep her on it until she kids. This isn't something she can likely pull out of...she'll need treatment until kidding and likely after for a few days or so. It's a vicious cycle...one she stops eating she gets weaker and the weaker she gets the less likely it is that she'll start eating again.

Propylene glycol isn't my favorite thing in the world, but it's good treatment for ketosis. Karo syrup and molasses aren't enough to treat her. You'll need to drench her with it several times a day, and make sure she doesn't aspirate it because it burns like heck. Here's a good article on treating. She's going to need aggressive treatment and don't stop treating until she kids!

 

[Oakroot]

She is already on propylene glycol several times a day.

Predef is an adrenal steroid that returns blood sugars to normal levels and stabilizes them. It also increases appetite and is anti inflammatory and prevents them from going into shock. It drastically increases the success rate of treat ketosis. However it comes at a cost of a much higher chance of early delivery. Effectively the same as Dex but with a slightly lower chance to induce it seems. Predef 2x is what my vet liked better.

 

[alsea1]

Prolly should go with what the vet suggested.
There is always next season for kids

 

[Renegade]

She is already on propylene glycol several times a day.

Predef is an adrenal steroid that returns blood sugars to normal levels and stabilizes them. It also increases appetite and is anti inflammatory and prevents them from going into shock. It drastically increases the success rate of treat ketosis. However it comes at a cost of a much higher chance of early delivery. Effectively the same as Dex but with a slightly lower chance to induce it seems. Predef 2x is what my vet liked better.

Propylene Glycol is not a good choice for goats. If you want good success throw out the propylene glycol and go back to using Revive or Magic. The doe will hate it but it works when used aggressively. There are two things that doe needs. Sugar or carbs for energy and calcium.
We had a doe a few years ago that would not get up at all and would not eat. We gave her 120ml Revive every 2-3 hours around the clock and made her get up and walk. We also put apple juice in her water for the extra sugar. After 4-5 days she would nibble at food and was at least walking around. We continued to treat her 4X a day until she kidded 10 days later. She had 5 kids and raised 3 of them on her own. She lived to be 10 years old and never had another problem.
You should know if you're planning to terminate the pregnancy the Predef alone will not do it. I personally would not give the Predef without also giving Lutalyse 12 hours later. I have a friend who's vet gave his doe Predef but not Lutalyse. The doe died 3 days later.

JMO

Donna

 

[Oakroot]

Prolly should go with what the vet suggested.
There is always next season for kids

We ARE going with what the vet suggested.