VERY skinny doe - updated post 38 - bottlejaw :(

[redtailgal]

I gotta agree with 20kids..dont beat yourself up over this.

Accidents happen, and you made a call that you regret. Been there, done that.

Your care and concern for this doe is obvious and you are doing a wonderful job with her. You have no reason to be ashamed of anything.

I am so glad that she is doing better! Would love to see pics of her when you feel comfortable with it (for now, I understand if you dont want to post pics).

Hang in there with her!

 

[Bunny-kids]

I gotta agree with 20kids..dont beat yourself up over this.

Accidents happen, and you made a call that you regret. Been there, done that.

Your care and concern for this doe is obvious and you are doing a wonderful job with her. You have no reason to be ashamed of anything.

I am so glad that she is doing better! Would love to see pics of her when you feel comfortable with it (for now, I understand if you dont want to post pics).

Hang in there with her!

Thanks very much.

Sigh ... yes, I guess we make bad calls sometimes. I did all the research I could, and did the best I could. I'm just regretting her condition now, but if it turns out she can be restored to good health and I can even straighten those legs out, that would be great.

I made mistakes learning to breed my rabbits in the beginning too, thinking I was doing them favors by "resting" them longer.

Anyway, yes, I'm committed as always to doing the best I can by them. And funny you should ask about pics. I actually DID take some today, this morning. But no, I'm not sure I'd want to post them. She looks worse than I personally have ever seen any goat look. Guess I'll load them in my computer (took them with a phone) and then I'll decide if I'm willing, LOL.

I have really cute baby pics of her. And TONS of pregnancy pics.

Her kids were standing together by the barn tonight while I was dosing her in the next yard, and they both had kind of humped-up backs, and I was thinking "OH NO!!!" but I think they were just distressed at having her removed. Five minutes later they looked fine, and their eyelids are fine, they haven't lost any weight, no scours, no signs of any problems at all. Her little doeling is my only doe kid this year though, and with possible removal of another doe from my herd later this year, I really REALLY don't want anything to happen to the doeling. Though I'll need a new buck before I can breed her. (And I hate the idea of bringing new goats in.)

 

[elevan]

The bottle jaw will clear up when you get the barberpole worms and anemia under control.

Nothing to panic over then? I've only seen it once before, in a young very weak doe kid, and she was at death's door when she got it.

I had another doe a few years back that KEPT a heavy barberpole load, seemed nothing I did could clear her up or get her FAMACHA looking good, and she never even had it.

So I was worried that my doe developed it AFTER her first worming, when she is looking a tiny bit better.

Just keep treating. Individual animals can be more susceptible to getting bottle jaw over others.

 

[Bunny-kids]

OK, I'll be brave and post a pic of her, who knows, may help if I'm missing something.

 

[elevan]

Do you know the copper situation in your area?

 

[redtailgal]

Awww. Bless her heart.

You get that weight back on her and I'd bet she is a pretty girl!

I wondered about the copper too. I gave my guys a copper bolus last fall, and they really had a nice coat afterward and they gained weight better afterward too.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[Bunny-kids]

Well, according to the charts I saw the links posted to here

Copper is 6.6 +/- 2.9 ppm and the bordering county is 4.8 +/- 0.8 ppm. I'm right on the border.

I give her a red loose mineral (it's all I have been able to find) formulated for goats. She was eating it sporadically before, but I noticed she started eating more while she was pregnant. I usually replenish hers by several tablespoons a day. Unless the chickens were cleaning it from her trough, she's been eating it all. Until the last few days, when she hasn't been eating well at all for the most part.

My wether is looking a little deficient (white hairs keep coming in, he's tan). He and the buck take a lot of minerals too. I know when I had a black doe, she kept getting reddish and I gave her minerals constantly.

I have to be careful putting it out, because I have a llama. The llama WILL go in the goat shed if she thinks there is food in there, so I only offer a small amount at a time, and only inside their stalls. She can't get in with the buck/wether, so I can give them more at a time.

 

[elevan]

A good way to use copper as a preventative / treatment for worms is with Copper Oxide Wire Particles (Copasure) . It's something that you may want to look into and consider.

 

[Bunny-kids]

Thanks, Emily, I'll look into that. I looked it up after I read your post. Not available here, but I can order some when I am able to.

Update ...

The bottlejaw was worse this morning, and even worse tonight. Her eyelids are starting to show a little more pink.

This morning she refused ALL food as far as grain, alfalfa, and hay. She didn't eat what I left for her in her trough last night. She was going crazy searching all over for hackberry leaves though. Ate a bite or two of clover, but not too interested.

However, by this evening, her appetite seems to be back. She did clean out the grain first, but then started eating even the alfalfa pellets (which she doesn't seem to like, never did like, but I think she needs them now). I only fed a small amount of grain, and 3x as many alfalfa pellets. Alfalfa hay not available here until the end of May.

I gave final dose of Valbazen. Her poop is now a clumpy, sticky, green-black pellet. No longer a green soupy scour as it was, so that's an improvement.

She's still getting red cell, and I added calcium gel, which I'm now rethinking on someone else's advice. After I dosed her she wasn't at all happy, but she immediately cleared out the dry doe's remaining food, wanted hay, drank a bunch of water, and went in her stall to start on the rest of her own food.

Her legs look SOOOOO thin, they look like they are wasting away as I watch. The front legs are very bowed in and thin.

So ... ups and downs. I'm seeing some improvement at least. She's just in scary-bad condition to me.

I'm not milking her, I never have, because she lost condition before she kidded. I do leave her kids on her though, although I'm thinking of weaning the buckling by putting him in with the boys, but he's an escape artist, that may not work. The kids seem to be eating very well, I think she never did feed them as much as she should have. She IS still producing milk (I checked) but her bag is smaller than it was a few weeks ago, and doesn't feel at all full.

That's all I can think of ... Someone asked in PM so I'm providing update.

Thanks so much, everyone!

 

[SDGsoap&dairy]

Stick with it- some things in goatkeeping we learn the hard way. Pull her through and then time to incorporate what you've learned into your management. I'm a firm believer that when it comes to goats if you can get solid nutrition and parasite management programs into place the rest will fall in line. Yes, they'll always throw us a curve like a malpresented kid or injuring themselves in the least predictable way possible, but proper nutrition (included supplementation with loose minerals, BoSe, Copper Bolus, etc) and proper parasite/disease management (including coccidiosis prevention in kids, CAE testing, and vaccinating) will mean good body condition, strong immune systems, and freedom from metabolic issues. Milkers of course need a little extra attention to udder health, but essentially I believe having a good working knowledge of these areas and conscientious management in these areas will mean good health for your herd 99% of the time. Those aren't just the basics (and seriously, is there anything basic about goat physiology? ) but truly the foundation of herd health.