Weight and price of different cattle

greybeard

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That is possible, especially if your photo software compresses the file when it resizes the image to get it to fit. But the thing that sticks out, is the length of the neck and head in comparison to the rest of the body, (from shoulder back) and the forearm/elbow just looks strange as heck--might be how he's standing, but the angles of his front legs are not impressive.
Now, I've seen more arguments and hurt feelings over interent bull critiques than any other livestock subject, and I sometimes forget where I am when I come to BYH. BYH is more about "Oh how cute--he's so pretty--What's his name" than it is about honest critiques.. For my cattle, if someone sees something wrong with one of them that I don't, I WANT to know--especially with bulls. I really don't care how cute one is--I want to know if it can do it's job--put $$ in my pocket.

When I take or look at photos of a bull, I look for or try to get a front qtr shot and a rear qtr shot as well as a full side view. WRB mentioned "guts, nuts, and butt" It's what we all look at for an indication of how well he can do in breeding season. A large gut means he can hold lots of forage instead of having to constantly eat--this allows him to spend more time checking out the girls and get his doin done. Big butt indicates good muscling, and not a "hatchet a**". That term means, from a side view, it looks like someone took a giant hatchet and just cleaved off his butt straight down even with his rear legs. I want to see some roundness back there--some big rump booty to put that kardassian woman to shame.. "Nuts" is self explanatory--want plenty big ones, and it's measured in circumference in centimeters. Can't see them in your picture, but they would in a shot taken from front qtr or rear. In Angus, minimum acceptable size at 365 days is 30 cm, but 32-35 cm may be a more comfortable minimum.
http://beefmagazine.com/mag/beef_size_matter

Just for illustration, here's one from my place, a simmental/Charolais cross about 8-9 months, maybe younger, that we sent to salebarn last year. I really liked his rump, his crest is visible only slightly because of his ear, but it's there, and he has good muscling in the chuck area--BUT, he's a little shorter in length than what I really wanted to see, has a small heart girth compared to other bull calves I've had from the same bull, and I REALLY didn't like his front legs or his belly line. He seemed to be short strided--his rear hooves should pretty much fall in the hoof print left by his front hooves--an indication he can do plenty of traveling while checking out the girls every day. Just not herdsire material for cow/calf production for me, but a pretty good commercial yearling for freezer beef or feedlot. (I drew a white line down his butt to show what a hatchet a** would look like)
IOW, this is a cull. Feel free to critique this one or any others I might post--ain't gonna hurt my feelings in the least.

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Here's another one about 2 yrs old that I wish I had not kept. Not much rump, short for a Beefmaster and sterile to boot. :(
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Bossroo

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I agree with what Greybeard has to say on all of these counts. COWGUY ... PLEASE open your eyes and mind ... carefully study Greybeard's young bull photos and those are his culls which are light years better quality than any of your stock. With what feed that you are pouring into your cattle , you will have a very hard time to recoup the costs as dairy animals ( including that Jersey cow) as well as their crosses and the Angus bull calf just doesn't have the conformation to produce enough edible meat to be of any real value. As such, you are LOOSING MONEY with every mouthful. Also, your bull calves will soon become quite dangerous to you and everyone else , so Sell all of your stock NOW and with their proceeds, buy a much better quality beef breed animal or two to finish or if a female to breed AI in the future !
 

WildRoseBeef

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After 10 months of having that cow I would expect some more condition on her. I think you need to switch up the rations so that you're giving them 2/3 grain and 1/3 protein mix. Gradually change to that supplementation (it'll take over a week, because their rumens need time to adjust) and stick with it for the next month or so to see how that goes with them.

I've been involved in raising stocker steers since I can remember, and the reason those steers were made into steers were for the exact reasons that Greybeard mentioned. After I have learned more about bovine conformation I began to see why we've gotten the kind of steers we have and why they weren't suitable bull material. Essentially, we were buying the bull culls from cow-calf operations that were destined for the meat isle of the grocery store. I've seen steers with terrible conformation from short-bodied like yours to pigeon-toed feet, shallow heart-girths, roached backs, and poor temperament. And I've seen some pictures of bulls that shouldn't be bulls too!! I would like to see some better pictures of that bull of yours (no rush, of course), but I've a feeling that he should be cut or banded ASAP, or sold as a feeder bull.

Now, Greybeard showed you some young cull bulls, I'm going to show you some pics of some steers that were rightly castrated (and I'm not trying to be a copy-cat...)

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A Red-factor Charolais. Notice the shallow heart-girth, back legs are toed-out, and short-bodied. He's got a bit of a hatchet-butt too.

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Red Angus steer. He's got a badly arched (roach) back, post-legged, and his back and front feet and legs (did I mention he's a posty?) are not good. He is also shallow in the heart-girth and short in body, and he is imbalanced with his rump (too shallow in the back end), and underline as crappy as GB's Simmi-Char cross bull calf.

Last one (as I can go on!):
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Angus steer that's short-bodied, heart-girth not the greatest, but back feet are toed out and he's another posty. His front feet are also not where a producer would like to see on a breeding prospect. I also don't like his top-line either.

One time we had three bulls that I found and separated out from the steer herd so they could be cut. They acted a bit "wild," (they attempted to escape twice, the bottom one tried to climb the fence) and their conformation was something that any good bull breeder would cringe at. Bad legs and feet, shallow heart girth, overall terribly imbalanced. And we, the background/stocker farm family, ended up with them. ;)
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COWGUY1123

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I honestly don't think that you can tell that much about a bull by a single picture or maybe even a thousand pictures I think that you would just have to see them in person. I might (might) buy a different angus bull this saturday at a local annual bull sale. And Bossroo you don't have to feel the need to insult my cattle. Just about everyone that I know who are cattle farmers from here say that my bull, my steer, my heifer, and holstein bull look really good. They do say that the mom looks light but that is just about it. They also estimate their weights differently than you people on here. I have been really busy since last saturday helping some of my neighbors with their different projects and i'll try to get more pics up by saturday.
 

greybeard

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What part of the world are you from? (general geographic location)
Never mind, I missed where you stated you were in the E. Tn/W. NC area.
 
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goatgurl

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@COWGUY1123 i honestly don't think that Bossroo or any of the others are trying to insult your cattle. i think they are trying to point out the bad qualities and save you some money in the long run. it costs just as much to feed a poor bull as it does to feed a good one. and about castrating the bulls, i worked on a large dairy farm for several years and let me tell you Holstein and jersey bulls get mean at a young age and i don't mean cranky i mean aggressive want to plow you into the earth mean. and it only takes once for them to injure you badly. if you want to keep them to sell for meat later then do what you want to do but please for your safety at least castrate the bulls.
and @greybeard if you have any more you plan to cull you can send them to my house. i don't even mind if they are sterile..
 

greybeard

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I think my next bull is coming out of the ArkLaTex--from a New Boston Tx Polled Hereford breeder.
 

Bossroo

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I honestly don't think that you can tell that much about a bull by a single picture or maybe even a thousand pictures I think that you would just have to see them in person. I might (might) buy a different angus bull this saturday at a local annual bull sale. And Bossroo you don't have to feel the need to insult my cattle. Just about everyone that I know who are cattle farmers from here say that my bull, my steer, my heifer, and holstein bull look really good. They do say that the mom looks light but that is just about it. They also estimate their weights differently than you people on here. I have been really busy since last saturday helping some of my neighbors with their different projects and i'll try to get more pics up by saturday.
cowguy ... I am NOT trying to insult your cattle ... I, as well as others here are just trying to get you to open your eyes to what you could have given a proper model to follow. Several successful cattle breeders here have been kind enough to provide photos of what they are producing as well as their comments on them as to why they don't measure up to stay as bulls and end up as sides of beef. Also a link to cattle anatomy. Reality of bull temperament , genetic physical characteristics , husbandry practices and the marketplace ends in either a profit or loss. I wish you the best of luck !
 

OneFineAcre

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I'm not a cow person, but I'm curious as to why you have so many bulls?
You had a holstein bull and the angus bull in your first post, and then you got another holstein bull I believe and your last post you were talking about getting another Angus Bull. And you've only got the one cow and one heifer. That's a lot of bulls for just two cows.
Most folks don't keep a bull at all for two cows, cheaper and better to do artificial insemination.
My FIL raises angus mixed beef cows. He keeps a registered angus bull (or two) for his, but he has about 70 cows I think. He used to do AI, but he's 85 years old now, so he lets the bull do the work.
Are you planning to steer the Holsteins?
 
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