What and how much to feed my LDG 10 week old puppies...

[Southern by choice]

Extreme Athlete Naturals 32% Fat/25% Protein

Our GSD has been on this and we recently took her off... going to a lower protein higher carb.
Very hard to keep weight on her and ultimately all the protein at this point could very well cause uric acid issues.

No raw pork here either...actually very little pork ever anyway.
Our LGD's rarely touch the raw meat in the hot months. They just don't need it. Low predator threat, heat, not using up much energy. Ours barely touch any food through the hot months... we end up with a 15-20 lb flux on the females and 20-30 lb flux on males.

 

[moffitthill]

First... I neglected to mention in previous post for the original question about the pups... a lot people believe mistakenly that extra/more calcium makes stronger bones... no no and no. Fast growing large/giant breed puppies given too much calcium can cause bone and joint developmental abnormalities.

Now onto more info... ash in dry kibble in high amounts can contain to much calcium also. High ash content from bones etc being rendered can also have too much phosphorus ... bad for kidney health. And last but not least... high ash can cause what Southern by Choice mentions... uric acid issues. I am not questioning the decision at all to go off the food. I would like to express that I have done the research though and found the manufacturer of the DIamond considered safe levels -- as of when first offered with original recipe for Extreme Athlete -- so unless they change should be OK unless your dog has special predispositions. Also Diamond actually has information to educate buyers about this concern on their site. Many manufacturers do not bother... nor do they put ash % on bag... nor do they return emails and/or calls regarding this matter. If you can't get the info may I suggest that you avoid those foods.

We supplement with raw so actual overall intake of ash is lowered as raw has no ash. Yet according to our vet, the dogs get enough mineral nutrient from dry kibble. We seldom feed canned food unless we need to entice an appetite or need the 70 to 90% water for some reason. Puppies being weaned... we mix. Also showing in a very hot climate, etc. Though fresh water available at all times, that extra water can help if tummy upset from travel to help hydration. Our dogs are Yankees

Please do your own research for each dog individually. I am not a vet but leaving my story. Just leaving for those that may be trying to decide what food best for their dog. This was a learning experience for us years ago. Concerning crystal/stones in urine. Years ago, we fed Eagle that had typical protein but the ash content was quite high... we didn't know -- wasn't on bag even if we had some knowledge then. It was a live and learn thing. We had a dog with crystals in urine... at vet recommendation if going to feed kibble. make sure 0.07% - 0.10% (on bags no decimals because of amount being considered for %) ash content and explained that it's not the protein itself that causes issues but the ash content from rendering to dry kibble and many companies looking at profitability don't take the precaution/extra means to lower what ash content gets into the kibble... you would think that more meat protein=more ash but that is not always the case. Otherwise the grain free dog and high protein food would be a big problem for the dogs. Again it depends on company does it and how much ash is left in the dry food,etc -- sources of manufacturers protein, how much bone, etc... Note that wet food usually has .02% -- not always enough as the ash does provide elements/minerals needed in the diet unless... again your pet has predispositions.

 

[moffitthill]

Our GSD has been on this and we recently took her off... going to a lower protein higher carb.
Very hard to keep weight on her and ultimately all the protein at this point could very well cause uric acid issues.

No raw pork here either...actually very little pork ever anyway.
Our LGD's rarely touch the raw meat in the hot months. They just don't need it. Low predator threat, heat, not using up much energy. Ours barely touch any food through the hot months... we end up with a 15-20 lb flux on the females and 20-30 lb flux on males.

Wow... that must be flux for the Greats. Our GSD dogs are kept lean show condition (even when seniors we still keep a waistline on them so weight is easy on the bones). Our GSD live to be 13-16 year old ... usually no sign of any old dog cricks until after 12. We can't have that kind of flux in weight as so lean.We feed coolest part of day except raw treat. Our dogs go go go go in the morning so by late lunch they have burned/digested breakfast which we feed very early and don't let them come out for exercise for an hour to two later to deter bloat. The raw disappears quick after as is just a supplement midday meal. Then... Siesta time in the cool away from heat. After nap later afternoon, it is outdoors again. After our dinner they get to really run the property some more (except winter when gets dark so early ... there are coyotes too close and we don't like them running the acres -- all animals are bunked in secure at dark when colder weather) and then get some night kibble... whatever is not finished by morning... we give difference to make meal for breakfast as long as not consistently leftover as to cause weight loss. Our dogs will go together until they can't... we have to watch that they don't overdo it when it's hot. Our senior before she passed still went go go go speed as she could... just not as long. They are like furry waterbugs Sometimes I wish they were more like your's in using less energy. In cold winter is when ours get a bit lazy. Must be a Northern thing.

 

[Southern by choice]

Yeah, the flux is for the LGD's.
My Old GSd's lived long lives too... 16 years was my best oldest girl. The GSd I have now... ugh impossible to keep weight on. I swear the dog could do 2 endurance tests in a day.
I do like my dogs on the lean side too!

@moffitthill -You mentioned somewhere else "not breed racial" what did you mean?

 

[moffitthill]

Yeah, the flux is for the LGD's.
My Old GSd's lived long lives too... 16 years was my best oldest girl. The GSd I have now... ugh impossible to keep weight on. I swear the dog could do 2 endurance tests in a day.
I do like my dogs on the lean side too!

@moffitthill -You mentioned somewhere else "not breed racial" what did you mean?

Not breed racial... means I don't discriminate by breed... I evaluate a dog by temperament. i also consider a breed for longevity/health so I consider a breed's pro/con when I help resource for suggesting a family dog of course. Yet, I've seen mutts and mixes with better temperaments than one with AKC papers. It drives me "nutter" to see people pay outrageous prices for the latest designer breed of the moment when that same mix sits in a pound waiting a fur-ever home. Just because we raise quality champion GSD and have been fortunate to breed (passion/not profit) puppies that on occasions other breeders have tried to buy away from us at shows for thousands... I don't want people to think I am a snob here. I am proud but also believe that any canine kid that is a safe family member is priceless. My son had a "pound puppy" that was the best dog ... so odd she was cute... and definitely priceless.

If that big a struggle for weight ... do you have pond, creek, water/marsh access? There is a parasite that will often be missed by vet except when parasite is shedding... so long time between... symptoms very intermittent diarrhea... we got an older pick puppy from a litter Arkansas (south or north can be present but more prevalent south) -- Ghardaia. Parasite is in upper intestine and deprives nutrition. Eventually can cause autoimmune issues etc if left untreated and a regular antibiotic does not clear it up.

If not a thyroid issue. Is your more GSD German bred? May be an enzyme deficiency in digestion or pancreatic issue? There is a powder that helps. Can't recall details but over the years we have had a handful of GSD German bred (except one American bred) that had similar weight issues. Were typically happy tubby puppies and as matured developed condition that made them not keep weight... one got so bad... she looked neglected. She was always sweet puppy and got so thin that she changed to almost nervous even grumpy at times. Then when she came again... noticed better weight and they were adding some small amount of powder to her food ... she now has good weight and is back to her very sweet self and now a senior dog,

The only other thing I can think of is we had one boarder (with GSD mix she got at rescue and was underweight)... dog initially gained weight but then plateau... owner gave her dog a higher end food with probiotic and a probiotic supplement thinking to aid digestion... not realizing that too much can be detrimental too. Vet flushed... like doggie detox... and owner was educated and sounds funny but her dog had healthy natural digestion and a basic food/average food with adequate nutrition and no dyes or the pre and probiotics... and the dog is at a healthy weight now.

I can't think of anything else at the moment. You are quite dog savvy. I am sure that we will not agree on everything but you have a passion that shows thus far as I have seen. Some or all of this, you may have known but if not... food for thought.

If I think of anything else odd or more obscure... I'll pass on.

BTW you make cute "faces" in post

 

[Southern by choice]

Yes, she is German. I am aware of parasitic issues, not her issue.
She is a very high energy GSD, she did have a Schutzhund trainer that rather "messed" her up .. she is our "pet" now and will remain simply that ... she is young and has enormous energy. We have increased her caloric intake and she is slowly gaining weight.
Glad you are not "breed racial" ... I agree there are different breeds for different folks! Yes, the designer dogs of the days ... well we just called them mutts in my day.
I love my mutt!

 

[WhiteMountainsRanch]

I like this feed: http://www.acana.com/

And this feed: http://www.wellnesspetfood.com/index.aspx

And both have a "large breed puppy" formula.

I also feed canned food, and raw after the pups are about 6 months old.

Very good advise on this thread.