Baymule
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@Rose Ellen Farm we sure have veered away from your original post. Sometimes threads take on a life of their own and wander around. I sure hope you don't mind!
When to send to slaughter
- Thread starter Rose Ellen Farm
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caprines.n.me
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I see a lot of good information here. I also see a lot of just plain old meanness. I'm not sure why it is necessary (and it's also against the rules here) to name call and put down people who don't live their life the way people here do. The "city idiots" and "liberals" have a right to try and take care of their families also. They may have been caught unaware when Covid hit and have finally figured out that their food doesn't come from the grocery store. I'm glad for it. People who are willing to try to help themselves shouldn't be put down for it. They are doing the farmers a favor by buying their 800 - 900lb steers. Folks here have butchered at the same weight and they weren't called out for it. Perhaps they had extenuating circumstances and had to butcher when the time was right for them.
Would it be possible to state your feelings without so much anger, negativity, and name-calling? I read more than I speak here...mama always said if you can't say something nice to not say anything at all. I'm trying to be nice here.
I would hope more folks would do the same.
Would it be possible to state your feelings without so much anger, negativity, and name-calling? I read more than I speak here...mama always said if you can't say something nice to not say anything at all. I'm trying to be nice here.
I would hope more folks would do the same.farmerjan
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@caprines.n.me I am going to answer your post and probably get called out for this. But, I have had to constantly deal with the "CITY IDIOTS AND LIBERALS" that you are defending.
They are NOT doing the farmer a FAVOR by buying the 8-900 lb steers. That is BULL SH!T. Don't you dare think that we need your "favors". We need some respect for what we do, and not just when these people feel threatened. Or when they want to take selfies with "their " steer .....and we have to stand around and WASTE our time while they do all this......
We farm and if a farmer sells his 8-9 wts for giveaway prices, then he needs to think about what he is doing. This is not just a way of life, it is a business. You have to sit and think about what you are doing, and figure out a way to make it work for you. We often buy the 8-9 wts and can make a bit on them just by taking care of the details. We aren't getting rich. That is in part due to the people in this country that think food should be cheap. Pay 500-1,000 for a "stupid smart phone" , and then spend half your day on it...while even subjecting yourself to harmful radiation and such from it....But to pay 500-1,000 for a half a beef that will feed you for a few months.....OMG.... they don't stop to think that good food is what you should be paying good money for... No, get food for as cheap as you can because there is so much of it.
In the case of dairy farming, we are RESTRICTED by the government pricing to ship conventional milk. Many farmers are not good at marketing. It sucks that they get caught in the treadmill.... and I have worked with them for over 30 years as a tester. And there are state regs on top of it to make it difficult to offer milk in other ways. Sure, farm shares, milk shares, things like that. But the LIABILITY is huge and don't think that all these "city idiots and liberals" won't SUE your butt off for whatever reason they can come up with. Have a food recall in the conventional food chain and it is taken with a grain of salt when someone gets sick.... get sick from a glass of raw milk and the farmer loses his farm, everything....
Yes, these city people, have a right to take care of their families. Some that got caught in the covid mess are looking at this in a better way. BUT..... do some REAL research before you just go "buy a 8-9 wt steer out of the field".... Going to a butcher shop with a list of cuts that you want, with no real knowledge of where they come from is just plain ignorant. And then to not even understand that there is ABOUT a 50% yield from a carcass, is showing that they have not tried to do any research for their food, but they will research buying a new vehicle or a new computer or anything like that.... to not understand that the LIVE animal is not all meat with a few pounds of guts and skin is just beyond dumb.
Ask the farmer some basic questions before you dive into this head first. Use some COMMON SENSE, which most seem to not have. And if you try to explain things, they look at you, make the comment that they are sure you mean well trying to explain things to them..... and act like they KNOW MORE THAN YOU..... I for one am DA#$@D sick and tired of it. I am not the HAYSEED farmer with a pitchfork that cannot do anything else because I am too dumb. I have been to college , I spend days every year at seminars trying to learn more, I spend HOURS: in the field trying to do a better job of planting crops and making hay, trying to breed better animals, doing what needs to be done to try to give them the best care I am capable of.... I don't do this job because I have to, I do it because I love what I do. I don't ask for a million dollars, I want to just make a living and be respected for what I do.
I sold a beef, a jersey. I explained that the cost was on hanging weight......$5.00 lb... included killing, vacuum packed, frozen, delivered to his house. His daughter had eaten some of it, I worked with her. I offered for them to take home a steak and some ground beef to try.....He said he understood all that, I gave him some choices on types of steaks and then he said he wanted to talk to the butcher.... I said fine, he could make his own arrangements. My local butcher spent over 3 hours with him, 2 different trips, and finally they got it agreed on what he could get. Jersey hung at nearly 60% as they have smaller finer bones.... I picked it up and delivered the meat.
He took and weighed EVERY SINGLE package and told me that there wasn't all the meat there, that the USDA says that you should get XX amount of hanging weight from an animal that weighs XX amount.... and what he got made it cost almost $9.00 a lb overall average. I tried to explain that the USDA goes by an average yield of a BEEF animal....he was sure he was getting screwed over. Butcher tried to explain it to him as I found out later he went back to the butcher and wanted to talk about it because I was not being straight with him. They ate at least 2-3 steaks, maybe some of the ground beef... before calling me to complain. I said I will be over to pick up the meat that afternoon, took back the total purchase cost.... and brought it home & put in my freezer. I would have flattened him if I had seen him that afternoon. My butcher said something to me the next beef we took in... and I apologized to him for this idiot; after finding out all this other stuff....
Not the first time we have gotten burned with STUPID IDIOTS. Was told once that I was just a dumb farmer that didn't understand the new way chefs had meat cut and how to prepare it.... and that I didn't understand about the proper way to AGE a piece of meat for it to be more palatable..... Aging is actually just allowing the meat to break down.... the first stages of ROTTING..... if you want to really get graphic. DON'T PATRONIZE ME.
Butchers are very good about giving their customers, especially new ones, time to try to explain about different cuts of meat. Where they come from, the different choices. You can't get all T-bones and all filets and NY strip steaks.... they come from the same place. You can get some of each... each half can get cut differently.... You don't get all steaks, there are parts suited for different cuts for different cooking methods..... People don't want all that hamburger.... but there are some cuts that are not good for anything else pretty much. There is a fair amount of trim... all goes into hamburger..... BUT these butchers are also busy.... more so now than ever with the backlogs.... and all the time they spend talking they are not cutting. Do these people understand that these butchers also are people who do have a life away from the shop.... that they spend 6-8-10 hours a day on their feet, in cool rooms, cutting meat, when they get done for the day, they then deal with phone calls and things like that. You don't just walk away from your job like those people that work in offices and such. It is not just 8-5....and they don't get paid by the hour. They do the job for a set amount, and it is with the knowledge that the longer they spend with each customer, the longer it takes, the less they make per hour, the less they get accomplished that day.
I don't question what my butcher charges. I think it is alot of money but I also realize he has alot of hours in what he produces out of my animal, and the hidden costs to get it there. It is a skill I don't have, and time I am not able to put into it. He is worth his costs.
If you want to preach... go preach to the "stupid idiots and liberals" that are unwilling to humble themselves to realize that they are out of their element, and be willing to really LISTEN and LEARN ...... and do some real research and homework to understand about their food instead of just their electronics...and who tell people what they want instead of asking what can be done, that they have had this or that cut and that they would like to have something like that.
Yes, I am opinionated.... but I am old enough now that I have run the gamut with so many that my tolerance level keeps shrinking.... I love to have someone come to me and say... hey, I don't understand this, show me what this means, show me how to grow this, teach me how to do this..... I will spend time and energy to do it... but I don't suffer know it all fools anymore.
Most of us are pretty outspoken here, and most of us have had years to suffer through all the stupidity and we just don't want to do it anymore. And we get tired of trying to help people with our years of experience and then get put down and looked at like we are stupid.... Everyone that has been there, done that, is also willing to ask others of their experiences and we can learn from others.... but relating some of the things that happen regularly anymore is no reason to judge those of us that relate these things or our reactions to it.
They are NOT doing the farmer a FAVOR by buying the 8-900 lb steers. That is BULL SH!T. Don't you dare think that we need your "favors". We need some respect for what we do, and not just when these people feel threatened. Or when they want to take selfies with "their " steer .....and we have to stand around and WASTE our time while they do all this......
We farm and if a farmer sells his 8-9 wts for giveaway prices, then he needs to think about what he is doing. This is not just a way of life, it is a business. You have to sit and think about what you are doing, and figure out a way to make it work for you. We often buy the 8-9 wts and can make a bit on them just by taking care of the details. We aren't getting rich. That is in part due to the people in this country that think food should be cheap. Pay 500-1,000 for a "stupid smart phone" , and then spend half your day on it...while even subjecting yourself to harmful radiation and such from it....But to pay 500-1,000 for a half a beef that will feed you for a few months.....OMG.... they don't stop to think that good food is what you should be paying good money for... No, get food for as cheap as you can because there is so much of it.
In the case of dairy farming, we are RESTRICTED by the government pricing to ship conventional milk. Many farmers are not good at marketing. It sucks that they get caught in the treadmill.... and I have worked with them for over 30 years as a tester. And there are state regs on top of it to make it difficult to offer milk in other ways. Sure, farm shares, milk shares, things like that. But the LIABILITY is huge and don't think that all these "city idiots and liberals" won't SUE your butt off for whatever reason they can come up with. Have a food recall in the conventional food chain and it is taken with a grain of salt when someone gets sick.... get sick from a glass of raw milk and the farmer loses his farm, everything....
Yes, these city people, have a right to take care of their families. Some that got caught in the covid mess are looking at this in a better way. BUT..... do some REAL research before you just go "buy a 8-9 wt steer out of the field".... Going to a butcher shop with a list of cuts that you want, with no real knowledge of where they come from is just plain ignorant. And then to not even understand that there is ABOUT a 50% yield from a carcass, is showing that they have not tried to do any research for their food, but they will research buying a new vehicle or a new computer or anything like that.... to not understand that the LIVE animal is not all meat with a few pounds of guts and skin is just beyond dumb.
Ask the farmer some basic questions before you dive into this head first. Use some COMMON SENSE, which most seem to not have. And if you try to explain things, they look at you, make the comment that they are sure you mean well trying to explain things to them..... and act like they KNOW MORE THAN YOU..... I for one am DA#$@D sick and tired of it. I am not the HAYSEED farmer with a pitchfork that cannot do anything else because I am too dumb. I have been to college , I spend days every year at seminars trying to learn more, I spend HOURS: in the field trying to do a better job of planting crops and making hay, trying to breed better animals, doing what needs to be done to try to give them the best care I am capable of.... I don't do this job because I have to, I do it because I love what I do. I don't ask for a million dollars, I want to just make a living and be respected for what I do.
I sold a beef, a jersey. I explained that the cost was on hanging weight......$5.00 lb... included killing, vacuum packed, frozen, delivered to his house. His daughter had eaten some of it, I worked with her. I offered for them to take home a steak and some ground beef to try.....He said he understood all that, I gave him some choices on types of steaks and then he said he wanted to talk to the butcher.... I said fine, he could make his own arrangements. My local butcher spent over 3 hours with him, 2 different trips, and finally they got it agreed on what he could get. Jersey hung at nearly 60% as they have smaller finer bones.... I picked it up and delivered the meat.
He took and weighed EVERY SINGLE package and told me that there wasn't all the meat there, that the USDA says that you should get XX amount of hanging weight from an animal that weighs XX amount.... and what he got made it cost almost $9.00 a lb overall average. I tried to explain that the USDA goes by an average yield of a BEEF animal....he was sure he was getting screwed over. Butcher tried to explain it to him as I found out later he went back to the butcher and wanted to talk about it because I was not being straight with him. They ate at least 2-3 steaks, maybe some of the ground beef... before calling me to complain. I said I will be over to pick up the meat that afternoon, took back the total purchase cost.... and brought it home & put in my freezer. I would have flattened him if I had seen him that afternoon. My butcher said something to me the next beef we took in... and I apologized to him for this idiot; after finding out all this other stuff....
Not the first time we have gotten burned with STUPID IDIOTS. Was told once that I was just a dumb farmer that didn't understand the new way chefs had meat cut and how to prepare it.... and that I didn't understand about the proper way to AGE a piece of meat for it to be more palatable..... Aging is actually just allowing the meat to break down.... the first stages of ROTTING..... if you want to really get graphic. DON'T PATRONIZE ME.
Butchers are very good about giving their customers, especially new ones, time to try to explain about different cuts of meat. Where they come from, the different choices. You can't get all T-bones and all filets and NY strip steaks.... they come from the same place. You can get some of each... each half can get cut differently.... You don't get all steaks, there are parts suited for different cuts for different cooking methods..... People don't want all that hamburger.... but there are some cuts that are not good for anything else pretty much. There is a fair amount of trim... all goes into hamburger..... BUT these butchers are also busy.... more so now than ever with the backlogs.... and all the time they spend talking they are not cutting. Do these people understand that these butchers also are people who do have a life away from the shop.... that they spend 6-8-10 hours a day on their feet, in cool rooms, cutting meat, when they get done for the day, they then deal with phone calls and things like that. You don't just walk away from your job like those people that work in offices and such. It is not just 8-5....and they don't get paid by the hour. They do the job for a set amount, and it is with the knowledge that the longer they spend with each customer, the longer it takes, the less they make per hour, the less they get accomplished that day.
I don't question what my butcher charges. I think it is alot of money but I also realize he has alot of hours in what he produces out of my animal, and the hidden costs to get it there. It is a skill I don't have, and time I am not able to put into it. He is worth his costs.
If you want to preach... go preach to the "stupid idiots and liberals" that are unwilling to humble themselves to realize that they are out of their element, and be willing to really LISTEN and LEARN ...... and do some real research and homework to understand about their food instead of just their electronics...and who tell people what they want instead of asking what can be done, that they have had this or that cut and that they would like to have something like that.
Yes, I am opinionated.... but I am old enough now that I have run the gamut with so many that my tolerance level keeps shrinking.... I love to have someone come to me and say... hey, I don't understand this, show me what this means, show me how to grow this, teach me how to do this..... I will spend time and energy to do it... but I don't suffer know it all fools anymore.
Most of us are pretty outspoken here, and most of us have had years to suffer through all the stupidity and we just don't want to do it anymore. And we get tired of trying to help people with our years of experience and then get put down and looked at like we are stupid.... Everyone that has been there, done that, is also willing to ask others of their experiences and we can learn from others.... but relating some of the things that happen regularly anymore is no reason to judge those of us that relate these things or our reactions to it.
misfitmorgan
Herd Master
As farmer Jan put it in the blunt words she is known and loved for "city idiots" and "liberals" is not a term we use for anyone from the city or any liberal. It's a term we use for the type of people she and a few others have described in thie forum over the years. It is not people wanting or willing to learn or just improve the food they are giving to their families. These are the people who think they know better then you, no matter your experience.....from the farmer to the butcher. They do be little other people and act as if they know everything and ignore your advice or your experience, some even act like you are trying to rip them off, or get the better of them.
We are all for helping people learn and better themselves and their families food just not at the cost of everyone elses time, money, and feelings to do it. If someone legitimately wants to learn something this forum is one of the places they can come to do it and we are happy to help them. It is not about being mean when discussing the city idiots or liberals it is about being sick of seeing it and dealing with it, when people think they know everything and think food should be even cheaper then it already is.
We dont deal in beef yet but we do deal in pork and have for years. We have had many people try to undercut our prices that are already stupidly low. People who come buy a feeder pig(around 8 weeks old) thinking they can take it to the butcher in a month and get 100lbs of pounds of meat. We have had people buy our animals and not listen to the instructions on what feed and how to feed them and had the animals end up very sick or dead. Do these people think they did something wrong, no they spread rumors about our stock being junk even though years have gone into their breeding and management. A 100 people that are happy with their meat/animal will tell a few people each, a couple people whose animal died because they ignored your advice or care instructions will tell everyone they know or come across who asks about pork(beef, goat, etc) about how bad your farm is and your livestock.
We don't put up with city idiots well and we do have good reasons for it. As I said not all people who live in a city are city idiots and not all liberals are "liberals" we are talking about specific people in those groups not the general group of people. It's a similar concept to the sheeple term, is everyone a sheeple...no but those that are often want to keep their head in the sand and not see what is going on around them.
We are all for helping people learn and better themselves and their families food just not at the cost of everyone elses time, money, and feelings to do it. If someone legitimately wants to learn something this forum is one of the places they can come to do it and we are happy to help them. It is not about being mean when discussing the city idiots or liberals it is about being sick of seeing it and dealing with it, when people think they know everything and think food should be even cheaper then it already is.
We dont deal in beef yet but we do deal in pork and have for years. We have had many people try to undercut our prices that are already stupidly low. People who come buy a feeder pig(around 8 weeks old) thinking they can take it to the butcher in a month and get 100lbs of pounds of meat. We have had people buy our animals and not listen to the instructions on what feed and how to feed them and had the animals end up very sick or dead. Do these people think they did something wrong, no they spread rumors about our stock being junk even though years have gone into their breeding and management. A 100 people that are happy with their meat/animal will tell a few people each, a couple people whose animal died because they ignored your advice or care instructions will tell everyone they know or come across who asks about pork(beef, goat, etc) about how bad your farm is and your livestock.
We don't put up with city idiots well and we do have good reasons for it. As I said not all people who live in a city are city idiots and not all liberals are "liberals" we are talking about specific people in those groups not the general group of people. It's a similar concept to the sheeple term, is everyone a sheeple...no but those that are often want to keep their head in the sand and not see what is going on around them.
caprines.n.me
Overrun with beasties
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I'm sorry that you seem to have missed the point of my post. My post was simply about being kind in our postings. I'm sorry you were offended by my request.
Perhaps I misspoke about doing a farmer a "favor." However, these folks couldn't buy an 8-900 lb steer if said steer were not offered for sale by the farmer. The farmer has a right to accept or refuse the buyer's money. When I sell an advertised animal, I am always grateful. I would suspect that most farmers also feel grateful when they sell an animal that they wanted to sell.
I have spent most of my life trying to convince folks to simply be kind. I have lived in countries where there was no opportunity for people to pick between a liberal or conservative party. You have a right to your opinion as does everyone else.
Perhaps I misspoke about doing a farmer a "favor." However, these folks couldn't buy an 8-900 lb steer if said steer were not offered for sale by the farmer. The farmer has a right to accept or refuse the buyer's money. When I sell an advertised animal, I am always grateful. I would suspect that most farmers also feel grateful when they sell an animal that they wanted to sell.
I have spent most of my life trying to convince folks to simply be kind. I have lived in countries where there was no opportunity for people to pick between a liberal or conservative party. You have a right to your opinion as does everyone else.
misfitmorgan
Herd Master
Being kind is great, this forum is built on the kindness, compassion and caring of the long time and new members of it. The city idiots and "liberals" we speak about are not kind to us, they do not care about us or the time we take to do what we do. These people are selfish, know it all and out to get the best for themselves/families no matter who they have to screw over to get it. There is no amount of kind or niceness that changes them.
Please read my post above before replying....as this is not all city dwellers or liberals, which I explained.
caprines.n.me
Overrun with beasties
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Again, my point is being missed. It was simply about the tone of the posts. So much negativity and name-calling as to present the forum in a negative light. Too many folks balancing huge chips on their shoulder and blaming others. (Oh my - even an old minister can be snarky. But, that's why I retired.) I have seen evil of which I could never describe adequately for anyone to understand the evil that lurks in mankind. That is why I shrink from it and try to convince others to simply practice kindness.
I think perhaps I should retire from this forum, as others have before me, for the same reasons. Blessings to you all.
I think perhaps I should retire from this forum, as others have before me, for the same reasons. Blessings to you all.
Larsen Poultry Ranch
Herd Master
I kinda feel like you are being a troll. You are misreading and misrepresenting the prior posts, possibly on purpose, in order to get a rise out of members. I think perhaps you might need to take your own advice. We don't mind opinions, we certainly have strong ones of our own, but trolling others is out of line.
farmerjan
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Thank you.
Jesusfreak101
Herd Master
I agree being kind is the best way. Saying some is a idiot isnt the best way but if some one is ingorent in something and refuses the council of those wiser then them selfs even God calls them fools. As we would be if we did the same when we need council in areas those who live in citys are wiser about. Their is no true fool or idiot then those who refuse council. That is what i would say the others are getting at. I have met many people and heard many discussion on matters and there always is one who refuses to learn. People ask me about animals because i have taken the time to learn. I ask others i know for help in areas that i have little experience with or need help with. Wisdom is in asking if someone refuses to ask question to those who are knowledgeable then are they not fools and therefor idiot to stubborn to leave their own pride and ignorance behind. We all have things to offer and those who demean others for not doing the same work are fools because ever task has its challenges and those who face them have the knowledge and the wisdom to guide others in how to face them. There an old saying no question is a stupid question the only thing that is stupid is not seeking out wisdom. One of the many thibgs God has talked about in the Bible and has placed in proverbs for us to learn and read and to seek out. Lets remember to seek wisdom and help others to seek it. Its better to ask then be a fool abd calling a fool a fool is just the ugly truth my children are fools but have enough wisdom to ask question even when its annoying for me to constantly answer.
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