Which cutting to get, hay storage and protein blocks

[blessedfarmgirl]

Thanks for all your input. I will start looking around and probably get a few bales this month and a few next month. I'll see if I can find tested hay.
If I store the bales under tarps outside should I take the tarps off after rains to let the moisture evaporate? Or just keep them on full time?

 

[farmerjan]

Sorry, I just got some time to sit here and saw this thread.

First off, first cutting is going to have the most bulk... stemmiest hay. It also will be the LOWEST protein. I hate to disagree with you but if you got some hay late into the winter, and there was more waste, and the farmer had it stored in the barn, it was most likely FIRST CUTTING.... first cutting goes in the barn first, 2nd later and 3rd last. So it comes out of the barn in the opposite order... unless they have enough room to put it in separate sections. My DS stacks his separately when we put it in the barn. Mostly we leave it on the wagons and load off them since we don't make but about 1,000 small sq bales now... rest is rolled.

Since I am not in TX and don't know the hay, I cannot comment on Bermuda or Bahia.... HOWEVER..... understand that making the hay is as much the weather as anything.
For example..... here in Va , we often get alot of rainy weather in May... might get 2-4 days of dry with rain predicted, then maybe 2-3 days dry etc and so forth. So you are TRYING to gauge hay cutting to what might be coming along. So.... then you are only cutting what you know you can get cut, tedded, raked and baled in that time frame. Then, if it is humid it doesn't dry fast... and you have to tedd maybe more than once to get the "bottom" turned up to the sun. That will beat the hay more and so the stronger stalks "survive" to get raked and baled. Then, the other fields will not get cut so they don't lay on the ground and get "washed" because that also leaches out the hay and protein levels drop. But they are getting "over mature" standing there waiting to get cut... so the quality drops and the "stemminess" increases.
It becomes a vicious battle. Cut too much, can't get it all worked and it rains on it and loses quality.... not to mention more time to tedd it out, to try to get it dried out, so when baled it doesn't mold. Even guys that do this for a living and aren't trying to fit it around a regular job, can only make so much in a day... and it takes xx hours to dry... if the field is heavy it takes longer to dry, as opposed to a field that is sparser that dries quicker.
It also depends on the weather as to how much moisture is in the stems to dry. This year we were dry to start. The fields were not making the quantity of hay due to lack of moisture. So, lighter to cut. Because of the lack of moisture, the air was very dry so it actually was perfect hay drying weather... no humidity.... air and breezes "sucked" the moisture right out of the hay. BUT we have about 30% less yield from first cutting because of lack of sufficient moisture for it to grow.
The hay also tried to "top"... go to seed quicker due to the dry weather.... Nature's way of perpetuating the grasses by making them head out quicker, make a seed head. So shorter and already heading out early. Then of course, everything just stopped... and for a month, we are lucky the grass/hay survived the drought conditions. We have had some decent rain.... and the hayfields are looking so much better. We will get a second cutting but it will be later... and it will not be a huge amount...

2nd cutting, if you get decent moisture, normally will have better protein, and the blades will not be near as stalky. I prefer 2nd cutting or 3rd cutting for the calves.... that grass here is called more "bladey" ... it is more like drying the grass on your lawn that should have been cut 3 weeks ago... so is tall and very green blades of grass... the blades of the grass will be wider and "softer" for them to eat.

Nearly all alfalfa here, first cutting is chopped... stems are much "harder" and the leaves will shatter off the stems when making it for hay more easily. The protein is good but the palatability is lower as hay. 2nd or 3rd cutting alfalfa is what I want for the nurse cows and they will practically lick the bunk clean to get it all.
DS only gets 2nd - 3rd cutting alfalfa for his ewes late gestation, and ewes with young lambs...they waste the stems.

First cutting hay can be very good hay if made early enough and made right.

Like was mentioned... I think by @Mini Horses .... if they do a hay analysis then you know what you are dealing with protein wise, and can adjust grain needs so might be more economical.

Protein lick tubs have their place... especially if you are not feeding grain daily. You will have some that are hogs and eat more than their fair share. It is an easy way to supplement for farmers that maybe don't get out to the animals everyday.... great for the cattle... but for the money, grain feeding is actually cheaper. They are a CONVENIENCE..... and you pay for convenience. Yes, I use them sometimes to supplement where I am not feeding grain everyday. It also allows any animals that are a little more timid, and won't crowd into a feeder, to be able to get some extra nutrition when the "boss " is not around to shove them out.

Put the rolls on the pallets or up on old tires or telephone poles or something so it is off the ground. Cover with tarp and here, it is not uncovered until we feed it. I don't know about the condensation there... not enough here to even consider it.
Grain for fattening... tubs will supply a balanced ration and not designed for fattening.

 

[blessedfarmgirl]

Sorry, I just got some time to sit here and saw this thread.

First off, first cutting is going to have the most bulk... stemmiest hay. It also will be the LOWEST protein. I hate to disagree with you but if you got some hay late into the winter, and there was more waste, and the farmer had it stored in the barn, it was most likely FIRST CUTTING.... first cutting goes in the barn first, 2nd later and 3rd last. So it comes out of the barn in the opposite order... unless they have enough room to put it in separate sections. My DS stacks his separately when we put it in the barn. Mostly we leave it on the wagons and load off them since we don't make but about 1,000 small sq bales now... rest is rolled.

Since I am not in TX and don't know the hay, I cannot comment on Bermuda or Bahia.... HOWEVER..... understand that making the hay is as much the weather as anything.
For example..... here in Va , we often get alot of rainy weather in May... might get 2-4 days of dry with rain predicted, then maybe 2-3 days dry etc and so forth. So you are TRYING to gauge hay cutting to what might be coming along. So.... then you are only cutting what you know you can get cut, tedded, raked and baled in that time frame. Then, if it is humid it doesn't dry fast... and you have to tedd maybe more than once to get the "bottom" turned up to the sun. That will beat the hay more and so the stronger stalks "survive" to get raked and baled. Then, the other fields will not get cut so they don't lay on the ground and get "washed" because that also leaches out the hay and protein levels drop. But they are getting "over mature" standing there waiting to get cut... so the quality drops and the "stemminess" increases.
It becomes a vicious battle. Cut too much, can't get it all worked and it rains on it and loses quality.... not to mention more time to tedd it out, to try to get it dried out, so when baled it doesn't mold. Even guys that do this for a living and aren't trying to fit it around a regular job, can only make so much in a day... and it takes xx hours to dry... if the field is heavy it takes longer to dry, as opposed to a field that is sparser that dries quicker.
It also depends on the weather as to how much moisture is in the stems to dry. This year we were dry to start. The fields were not making the quantity of hay due to lack of moisture. So, lighter to cut. Because of the lack of moisture, the air was very dry so it actually was perfect hay drying weather... no humidity.... air and breezes "sucked" the moisture right out of the hay. BUT we have about 30% less yield from first cutting because of lack of sufficient moisture for it to grow.
The hay also tried to "top"... go to seed quicker due to the dry weather.... Nature's way of perpetuating the grasses by making them head out quicker, make a seed head. So shorter and already heading out early. Then of course, everything just stopped... and for a month, we are lucky the grass/hay survived the drought conditions. We have had some decent rain.... and the hayfields are looking so much better. We will get a second cutting but it will be later... and it will not be a huge amount...

2nd cutting, if you get decent moisture, normally will have better protein, and the blades will not be near as stalky. I prefer 2nd cutting or 3rd cutting for the calves.... that grass here is called more "bladey" ... it is more like drying the grass on your lawn that should have been cut 3 weeks ago... so is tall and very green blades of grass... the blades of the grass will be wider and "softer" for them to eat.

Nearly all alfalfa here, first cutting is chopped... stems are much "harder" and the leaves will shatter off the stems when making it for hay more easily. The protein is good but the palatability is lower as hay. 2nd or 3rd cutting alfalfa is what I want for the nurse cows and they will practically lick the bunk clean to get it all.
DS only gets 2nd - 3rd cutting alfalfa for his ewes late gestation, and ewes with young lambs...they waste the stems.

First cutting hay can be very good hay if made early enough and made right.

Like was mentioned... I think by @Mini Horses .... if they do a hay analysis then you know what you are dealing with protein wise, and can adjust grain needs so might be more economical.

Protein lick tubs have their place... especially if you are not feeding grain daily. You will have some that are hogs and eat more than their fair share. It is an easy way to supplement for farmers that maybe don't get out to the animals everyday.... great for the cattle... but for the money, grain feeding is actually cheaper. They are a CONVENIENCE..... and you pay for convenience. Yes, I use them sometimes to supplement where I am not feeding grain everyday. It also allows any animals that are a little more timid, and won't crowd into a feeder, to be able to get some extra nutrition when the "boss " is not around to shove them out.

Put the rolls on the pallets or up on old tires or telephone poles or something so it is off the ground. Cover with tarp and here, it is not uncovered until we feed it. I don't know about the condensation there... not enough here to even consider it.
Grain for fattening... tubs will supply a balanced ration and not designed for fattening.

Thank you! That was very helpful and has given me a lot to think about. I'm glad after 2 years I'm finally realizing that hay is very important and I need to put more thought into what I buy. I'll take all that into consideration as I prep for winter.

 

[SageHill]

Sorry, I just got some time to sit here and saw this thread.

First off, first cutting is going to have the most bulk... stemmiest hay. It also will be the LOWEST protein. I hate to disagree with you but if you got some hay late into the winter, and there was more waste, and the farmer had it stored in the barn, it was most likely FIRST CUTTING.... first cutting goes in the barn first, 2nd later and 3rd last. So it comes out of the barn in the opposite order... unless they have enough room to put it in separate sections. My DS stacks his separately when we put it in the barn. Mostly we leave it on the wagons and load off them since we don't make but about 1,000 small sq bales now... rest is rolled.

Since I am not in TX and don't know the hay, I cannot comment on Bermuda or Bahia.... HOWEVER..... understand that making the hay is as much the weather as anything.
For example..... here in Va , we often get alot of rainy weather in May... might get 2-4 days of dry with rain predicted, then maybe 2-3 days dry etc and so forth. So you are TRYING to gauge hay cutting to what might be coming along. So.... then you are only cutting what you know you can get cut, tedded, raked and baled in that time frame. Then, if it is humid it doesn't dry fast... and you have to tedd maybe more than once to get the "bottom" turned up to the sun. That will beat the hay more and so the stronger stalks "survive" to get raked and baled. Then, the other fields will not get cut so they don't lay on the ground and get "washed" because that also leaches out the hay and protein levels drop. But they are getting "over mature" standing there waiting to get cut... so the quality drops and the "stemminess" increases.
It becomes a vicious battle. Cut too much, can't get it all worked and it rains on it and loses quality.... not to mention more time to tedd it out, to try to get it dried out, so when baled it doesn't mold. Even guys that do this for a living and aren't trying to fit it around a regular job, can only make so much in a day... and it takes xx hours to dry... if the field is heavy it takes longer to dry, as opposed to a field that is sparser that dries quicker.
It also depends on the weather as to how much moisture is in the stems to dry. This year we were dry to start. The fields were not making the quantity of hay due to lack of moisture. So, lighter to cut. Because of the lack of moisture, the air was very dry so it actually was perfect hay drying weather... no humidity.... air and breezes "sucked" the moisture right out of the hay. BUT we have about 30% less yield from first cutting because of lack of sufficient moisture for it to grow.
The hay also tried to "top"... go to seed quicker due to the dry weather.... Nature's way of perpetuating the grasses by making them head out quicker, make a seed head. So shorter and already heading out early. Then of course, everything just stopped... and for a month, we are lucky the grass/hay survived the drought conditions. We have had some decent rain.... and the hayfields are looking so much better. We will get a second cutting but it will be later... and it will not be a huge amount...

2nd cutting, if you get decent moisture, normally will have better protein, and the blades will not be near as stalky. I prefer 2nd cutting or 3rd cutting for the calves.... that grass here is called more "bladey" ... it is more like drying the grass on your lawn that should have been cut 3 weeks ago... so is tall and very green blades of grass... the blades of the grass will be wider and "softer" for them to eat.

Nearly all alfalfa here, first cutting is chopped... stems are much "harder" and the leaves will shatter off the stems when making it for hay more easily. The protein is good but the palatability is lower as hay. 2nd or 3rd cutting alfalfa is what I want for the nurse cows and they will practically lick the bunk clean to get it all.
DS only gets 2nd - 3rd cutting alfalfa for his ewes late gestation, and ewes with young lambs...they waste the stems.

First cutting hay can be very good hay if made early enough and made right.

Like was mentioned... I think by @Mini Horses .... if they do a hay analysis then you know what you are dealing with protein wise, and can adjust grain needs so might be more economical.

Protein lick tubs have their place... especially if you are not feeding grain daily. You will have some that are hogs and eat more than their fair share. It is an easy way to supplement for farmers that maybe don't get out to the animals everyday.... great for the cattle... but for the money, grain feeding is actually cheaper. They are a CONVENIENCE..... and you pay for convenience. Yes, I use them sometimes to supplement where I am not feeding grain everyday. It also allows any animals that are a little more timid, and won't crowd into a feeder, to be able to get some extra nutrition when the "boss " is not around to shove them out.

Put the rolls on the pallets or up on old tires or telephone poles or something so it is off the ground. Cover with tarp and here, it is not uncovered until we feed it. I don't know about the condensation there... not enough here to even consider it.
Grain for fattening... tubs will supply a balanced ration and not designed for fattening.

Wow - that's a TON of VALUABLE info!! Thank you.
I was told out here that first cutting goes primarily to the dairies. The alfalfa that my sheep tend to like the best I ~was told by the hay guy is first and second cutting --- the stems are very thin and it's very leafy. The stuff they pick through has stems that are thicker, bigger and heavier than what they clean up. Those stems are left behind, and depending on the bale it could be up to a 30% waste (yeah I weighed it). I've ended up shredding that (they still won't eat it if I shred it) and use it in the garden and give to friends for their gardens.
The flakes from bales they like are usually light-ish and easy to break up. I do get a fair amount that ends up on the floor in the hay stall - but that gets raked up and fed -- they really like that, loke candy for them.
Hmmm - I should start taking pics of the flakes and note on the picks the result of their eating.