Why Don't My Goat Act Normal?

[Farmer Kitty]

Are you treating her for pinkeye? If not, you need to do so immediately or risk her going blind.

As for treatment of the cocci, get what is needed or loose her. I'm sorry but, sometimes even when money is tight, we have to do without other things to treat our sick animals. It's part of having them.

 

[Roll farms]

The DiMethox (cocci) medicine from Jeffers is only 12$ for the powder.
The eye ointment is maybe 8$ at TSC.

She could go blind if you don't treat the pinkeye....and as long as it's been, she may well anyway.
She WILL die if it's cocci and you don't treat it. Period.
Even if she survives, she will always be undersized and puny.

I have to agree w/ F.K., I have 6 dogs, 8 cats, 30 or so goats, one sheep, and many other assorted critters and they ALWAYS get what they need before we do.
It's part of having animals.

 

[goatdude95]

Okay I ordered the powder I thought everyone only meant the shots and they are pretty high

 

[Roll farms]

Mix that powder w/ 3 c water. Shake WELL.
Drench her w/ 1 cc per 5# (if she's 20#, that'd be 4cc) on day one, then 1 cc per 10# for 7 days. Keep it in the fridge. Repeat for 5 days in 21 days, and you might want to just repeat it every 21 days for 5 days until after it frosts.
Get some probiotic paste at TSC and give it to her. A vitamin B shot would help, as would Red Cell a/o Calf Manna daily.

 

[Roll farms]

PS...if you have other kids, you may as well treat them all....

 

[cmjust0]

Whoa, whoa, whoa.. How did we get to coccidiosis?

He didn't mention anything about diahrrea, but he did state that they had an appetite...what about that screams coccidiosis? In my opinion, they're too young and he's not had them long enough to be losing them from chronic subclinical coccidiosis, so we've got to be talking acute...right?

I just don't see any reason to suspect coccidiosis -- clinical nor subclinical -- based on what I'm reading..

What we do know is that they're only 12wks old, and he says "when I got them" -- meaning they were shipped within the last month.. From the sound of things, they started acting "mopey" when they arrived...and now one's dead.

Aside from the comment about how it "doesn't seem" to be running a fever, my first guess would be shipping fever -- pneumonia. I'm guessing that anyone who wouldn't know that sheep-safe "all stock" isn't OK for goats likewise wouldn't recognize the somewhat subtle symptoms of pneumonia, either..

My second guess would actually be zoonotic ataxia, aka "swayback." He's feeding sheep-safe "all stock," which has no copper, and he said the one that died couldn't stand very well at all.. Zoonotic ataxia is caused by copper deficiency.

If this goat's even still alive, I'd hit it with some antibiotics -- that Durvet Pen Aqueous that everyone pooh-pooh'd would be better than nothing -- and I'd get it on some real 16% goat feed with copper ASAP..



I mean...coccidiosis? Really?

Wow..

 

[username taken]

Okay, first of all, is the attitude really necessary?

Second, copper deficiency (which is gonna make a whole lot more sense to this poster than zoonotic ataxia is gonna take longer than 12 wks to begin showing clinical signs, I know that because I've learnt it the hard way, I lost a lot of kids, adults and production because of it. The only way these goatlings would be deficient is if the herd that they came from, including their mothers, was deficient.

Third, yes, I see signs that make me suspect coccidiosis. Anytime I see young goats (<1 yr old) who are unthrifty, lethargic, not growing well, scruffy coat, etc I suspect coccidiosis. I have been around long enough and seen enough of this to know that coccidiosis doesnt always present with the classic cocci scours. In fact, lot of the time that sign is absent. But cocci is one of the leading causes of ill thrift in young goats, kept in confinement.

 

[cmjust0]

Okay, first of all, is the attitude really necessary?

Perhaps not, but it frankly bothered me that, despite the fact that none of the more classic symptoms seemed to be present, nothing besides coccidia was even seriously considered. On top of that, nobody said a word about the fact that there's ZERO copper in all-stock feed, and that goats absolutely need copper.

"No sheep feed!" is pretty basic Goat 101.

More than anything else, I think I was just a little disappointed in the responses.

Second, copper deficiency (which is gonna make a whole lot more sense to this poster than zoonotic ataxia is gonna take longer than 12 wks to begin showing clinical signs, I know that because I've learnt it the hard way, I lost a lot of kids, adults and production because of it. The only way these goatlings would be deficient is if the herd that they came from, including their mothers, was deficient.

How do you know they weren't? It's not something that's commonly recognized, and I'd say it goes undiagnosed far more often than not..

If you were to take a goatling suffering copper insufficiency from a copper deficient herd and proceed to withhold all copper...how long would it take -- in your opinion -- to become copper deficient and begin to develop ataxia?

I mean...you said yourself that you've lost kids to it.....

In fact...given that you've lost kids to it, and that he plainly posted that there was no copper in his feed...and that they got really weak and couldn't stand...I'm really quite surprised you didn't think of it, too.

Third, yes, I see signs that make me suspect coccidiosis. Anytime I see young goats (<1 yr old) who are unthrifty, lethargic, not growing well, scruffy coat, etc I suspect coccidiosis. I have been around long enough and seen enough of this to know that coccidiosis doesnt always present with the classic cocci scours. In fact, lot of the time that sign is absent. But cocci is one of the leading causes of ill thrift in young goats, kept in confinement.

That's fine.. My opinion is that they wouldn't be dead in a matter of days from non-acute, subclinical coccidiosis, because they wouldn't suffer the dehydration and other quick-killing symptoms associated with acute coccidiosis.. My opinion is that they would just persist with ill-thrift and be poor-doers until they eventually keeled over or got better... That's not my perception of what happened here...and it's just my opinion..

My biggest problem was that -- even though it was clear that the OP didn't really know goats that well -- nobody even mentioned pneumonia.. When I hear "mopey," I immediately think of the hunched over stance of a goat with pneumonia...and nobody even asked for a better description..

 

[username taken]

Second, copper deficiency (which is gonna make a whole lot more sense to this poster than zoonotic ataxia is gonna take longer than 12 wks to begin showing clinical signs, I know that because I've learnt it the hard way, I lost a lot of kids, adults and production because of it. The only way these goatlings would be deficient is if the herd that they came from, including their mothers, was deficient.

How do you know they weren't? It's not something that's commonly recognized, and I'd say it goes undiagnosed far more often than not..

If you were to take a goatling suffering copper insufficiency from a copper deficient herd and proceed to withhold all copper...how long would it take -- in your opinion -- to become copper deficient and begin to develop ataxia?

I mean...you said yourself that you've lost kids to it.....

In fact...given that you've lost kids to it, and that he plainly posted that there was no copper in his feed...and that they got really weak and couldn't stand...I'm really quite surprised you didn't think of it, too.

I can tell you that in my case, the doe herd was fed a nil copper diet for two years before clinical signs appeared, the first of which was ill thrift in the goatlings who grew well until 6 mths old then stagnated; followed by steely wool (these are angoras); the kid deaths were solely from weak newborns and stillbirths.

So following that timeline, IF this kid has copper deficiency I would expect the herd of origin to have had no copper for at least a year. Now, I might be mistaken, but I believe that the herd that goatdude gets his goats from is a very well established breeder who has been breeding pygmies for a long time, and I think showing them also? Which says to me that it is unlikely the herd of origin is copper deficient. I'm not saying its impossible, but I would think unlikely.

 

[Roll farms]

I also suggested he have a fecal ran to try and find out IF cocci was a prob.

Since Di Meth is also a long-used antibiotic (old timers swear that sulfa drugs were great for shipping fever...) that happens to also work to kill cocci, I thought it was easier to suggest that drug, than confuse him w/ it MIGHT be this or it MIGHT be that...hit them w/ a broad spectrum antibiotic that ALSO kills cocci.

Just b/c your first thought was pnuemonia, and mine was cocci, doesn't make you right and me wrong...and I still think my POSSIBLE diagnosis is more likely than yours....based on what he described, it sounded like early SUBclinical cocci symptoms, to me.

In my experience, if they're still trying to eat, it's not pnuemonia.

Pen A won't help cocci, Di Methox will help several things....hmmm...which is the better suggestion?

(The purpose here was to HELP, not belittle or win a peeing contest...But since you seem to want to have one...?)

If he'd described a kid hunched over, no interest in food or affected by other stimuli....then yeah, mebbers I'da suggested pnuemonia.

I mean really? Pnuemonia? Pish posh. (That's sarcasm, mind you...)
Copper deficiency in a kid that young? I gotta go w/ UT on this one, to me that's really reaching. It just doesn't usually manifest itself that quickly from what I have seen. He said they were fine before he got them...doesn't scream "long term copper deficiency" to me, sorry.

It's one thing to suggest "Hey, you might also consider...."
It's quite another to suggest that folks who've been doing this for a long time, and are trying to help someone in need...are idiots.

In a forum situation, I've found it's best to be kind or quiet, one or the other.

Goatdude: I still suggest having a fecal ran, and that you do some research about goat nutrition requirements, common illness symptoms, etc. Take your goat's temp and get an idea of what it is "normally" so you'll KNOW when something's up. Listen to their "normal" rumen function, check eyelid color, etc.
Research is free online and fecals are fairly inexpensive.
Good luck and keep us posted, please.