Wierd....CAE results back

[Roll farms]

One of our Obs freshened w/a hard udder....Not just congested, but wierd / hard / lumpy.
I did some research and one of the possible reasons for it *could* be CAE. I bought her as a kid from a CAE free herd, so I was a little concerned.

I decided I'd go ahead and test the entire herd, just so I'd know...it'd been 6 years since we tested anyone.

The good news: Jinx, the Ob, doesn't have CAE.

BUT...3 of our does are positive.

Here's the strange part:
Doodle, one of the biggest, healthiest does we have, with the nicest udder...is postitive.
Her dam, Dolly...was negative. Her 2 sisters (different births, same dam) are negative.

Puffy, who was negative at 1 yr old and who's dam STILL tests negative...is positive.

Missy, who's dam we also own, is positive...her dam is negative.

Where the hay did they get it????????????

(I use new needles when vaccinating, etc.)

I also had them test copper levels, both to see if our goat mineral is working and because one or two black goats just alway look a little deficient to me....I had them test one doe who looks "good" and one who looks "bad" so I'd have a comparison.

The one who looks good, is in the "good to high" range.

The doe who looks 'bad'....HAS TOXIC HIGH LEVELS.....*slaps forehead*
I've been hitting her w/ Red Cell and adding copper sulfate to the water...guess I better stop that, eh?

The toxicity symptoms can mimic the deficiency symptoms....I was giving her more and more when she needed cut back....argh.

Still waiting on the selenium level results....

Just thought I'd share the wierd phenom of having CAE pos. does out of CAE neg dams....who also have CAE neg siblings....

We do CAE prev. raise also....but Missy and Puffy weren't born here, so I can't *swear* they were....but Doodle definitely was...

*scratches head til she's bald*

For the record, NONE of these girls are going anywhere....they're asymptomatic and favorites of ours.

 

[RockyToggRanch]

That is wierd and interesting. Thanks for sharing. What if they're false positives? Will you retest the pos does? I mean if the one was neg previously is there a chance that something else effected the test?

 

[ksalvagno]

That is strange. Obviously there are other ways of getting it than through the milk. Maybe it is just more hit or miss with that.

Hopefully the copper toxicity will work itself out for you.

 

[cmjust0]

I'm betting they're false positives. Transmission among adults is very rare...if they got it, they got it as babies, and I dunno how they'd get it as babies unless their dam was CAE+.

What type of test was run? AGID or ELISA?

The AGID isn't as sensitive, so it's not considered as "accurate" as the ELISA......but the ELISA is WAY sensitive and known to return false positives.

Damned if ya do, damned if you don't.

I'd bet a hundred bucks they're false positives, though.

 

[Roll farms]

I have to go to the vet next week for puppy shots, I'll pick up the results / find out what kind of test it was.
They were ran at Purdue...he said he asked about false pos. results and they said they were 99% accurate....

I stumped him when we were discussing it and I asked how Doodle's mother, sisters and daughter can be neg. when she's positive...and ALL were caught / bottle raised....and I KNOW I did it by the book, and then some.

Not one of these 3 does has a single symptom, either...range in age from 3 to 7 yrs.

I'm planning on testing the positives and any offspring / siblings of theirs again next year...

 

[DonnaBelle]

The more I read, and talk to vets, especially Dr. Simpson at OSU the more I realize this is a very capricious disease. Producing false positives and negatives.

Dr. Simpson said it seems to be very similar to human AIDS in the way it behaves. It is very illusive and unpredictible.

The situation Roll is describing is really a hair pulling, teeth gnashing pain in the arse.

I'm wishing you well, Roll.

I'm ordering nipples from Hoegger's and getting ready to bottle feed what is hopefully ONE kid from Lenora.

DonnaBelle

 

[cmjust0]

I have to go to the vet next week for puppy shots, I'll pick up the results / find out what kind of test it was.
They were ran at Purdue...he said he asked about false pos. results and they said they were 99% accurate....

But...does that really answer the question?

What I mean is...are they saying they catch 99% of all known CAE+ animals? Because if so, that doesn't really address a false positive...they could be catching 99% of all known positives, and returning positive on X% of all known negatives.

That's actually the way I've read the ELISA test to be.. Kinda like, true positives rarely slip through the ELISA because it's so sensitive, but the tradeoff for the hightened sensitivity is that it returns more false positives as well..

I know you don't know the answers, but think of it this way...if Purdue can claim 99% accuracy both ways, then they're achieving results nobody else is able to achieve.

Last I read, the best WADDL claims is 95.2% sensitivity with no false positives. Though I can't say I understand it all, a person might take that to mean that if they try to go upward of 95.2% sensitivity, false positives start happening..

Now...think about that in terms of the '99%' number you were thrown.

My thinking is that one of two things are possible: Either that 99% number is the product of someone having pulled it directly from their rectum, or their test is too sensitive and may be returning a decent number of false positives..

I'm having a hard time getting my point across here, but do you see what I'm driving at?

 

[RockyToggRanch]

That actually made sense to me. Very well said.

Let's hope for false positives.

 

[aggieterpkatie]

Roll, were your positive does vaccinated for anything in the past 6-8 weeks? That can cause a positive result. You may want to send in samples from the ones who tested positive to Biotracking, just to get a second opinion. Does your test tell you what percent or level they tested?

 

[cmjust0]

Roll, were your positive does vaccinated for anything in the past 6-8 weeks? That can cause a positive result. You may want to send in samples from the ones who tested positive to Biotracking, just to get a second opinion. Does your test tell you what percent or level they tested?

If she's just freshened, as Roll indicated, I'd be willing to hazard a guess that she was vaccinated with C/D-T within the last 6 weeks -- if not more recently.

The plot thickens..