Worried *please advise!*

[helmstead]

My point was, forget the BOSS, alfalfa pellets and Calf Manna...just get them on creep with the Noble Goat, and you'll see an improvement in 2 weeks...maybe three.

Go back to basics, see what happens, and edit from there...

 

[redtailgal]

I agree with Helmsted, in my beginner mind.

I fed Noble goat to Socrates and Plato, and they do fine on it. They were thin in part to the worms and in part to my fear of UC.

My meat wether is on goat sweet feed, but only because it was accidentaly purchased. I wont ever intentionaly buy it.

I am using the calf manna for the meat wether, just to pack on some lbs.

 

[that's*satyrical]

ahhh. So you're saying give them free choice noble goat & totally cut out what they were eating before?? That seems to go against what everyone else on here has been saying. Or are you saying cut out the xtra stuff for now & slowly add in the noble until that is all they are eating, free choice. Then maybe add the other stuff later?? Sorry but I am a newb so just learning here... creep means free choice though right? Is that safe to do with the buck out there though? They are my only 2 goats so it is hard to separate them for feeding even if I just close her away from him she cries for him. I guess they would probably get over it & eat after a few minutes though....but still the whole creep feed thing would be next to impossible....if that is in actuality free choice....

 

[SDGsoap&dairy]

I agree with Helmstead about not fussing with supplements until you get the foundation of their diet balanced and at the quality where it needs to be. For us, alfalfa and good quality grain ration (where needed) is that foundation. I second scrapping the dumor and sweet feed. I would also reserve the calf manna until you see what your foundation is doing for her.

 

[helmstead]

ahhh. So you're saying give them free choice noble goat & totally cut out what they were eating before?? That seems to go against what everyone else on here has been saying. Or are you saying cut out the xtra stuff for now & slowly add in the noble until that is all they are eating, free choice. Then maybe add the other stuff later?? Sorry but I am a newb so just learning here... creep means free choice though right? Is that safe to do with the buck out there though? They are my only 2 goats so it is hard to separate them for feeding even if I just close her away from him she cries for him. I guess they would probably get over it & eat after a few minutes though....but still the whole creep feed thing would be next to impossible....if that is in actuality free choice....

No need to apologize for being a newbie...but...

I didn't realize you were feeding that to a buck. How old are they? That is definitely not a good diet for a buck...and she's going to get bred (I'm guessing that was your intention, though).

A sudden exclusion of feeds isn't generally a problem. You would want to increase the goat pellets slowly.

The other trouble is Noble Goat in GA does NOT contain AC, I don't think Dumor does. And burmuda hay is LOW in calcium...and sweet feeds increase the risk of UC. Don't panic, but find yourself some Fruit Fresh or Acid Packs and treat that boy with them.

If you click the goat info link on my siggy, it will take you to my husband's website, where you'll find a page about preventing UC, and another page about feeding ("the roughage and the regulator").

 

[that's*satyrical]

Actually the Dumor Goat DOES contain AC (unless it is labeled wrong which I'm guessing is illegal), the Noble Goat I have DOES as well. Also the manna pro goat mineral contains AC, so he is in fact getting a decent amount of that. It is listed in the top half of the ingredients so I'm guessing they put a decent amount of it in there. I do know that bucks aren't supposed to get a ton of grain so that is why I was trying to transition more to the alfalfa pellets. The manna pro is just added to give them a nutritional boost since I am trying to get them to gain (same as the BOSS) The only thing I don't like about the Noble Goat is I didn't realize it is medicated. I am not big on medicated feed I would rather just medicate if there is a problem. We just wormed them today (ivermectin) so that should help. The place where they were staying had switched over to safeguard only which I have read is not very effective due to resistance from over use. I really don't think they have a huge problem with worms since their pellets are firm but easy to pass, and they seem healthy & happy besides being a tad on the thin side, but you never know. I'm going to give the ivermectin a little time to work & then try to get fecals. I really would like to find a nice, high quality, goat feed that is not medicated for them. I don't mind using it short term if it will help a problem. No offense, your goats look wonderful on it. I just don't want to be a contributing factor to any sort of resistance. I will definitely check out your site though because I want to learn everything possible before making clear decisions on what I would like to do to care for my herd. Food is one of the greatest contributing factors to good health. I also give them just a splash of vinegar in the water. If the acidity in cranberry juice helps prevent uti's in women, it can't hurt & I figure might possibly help to throw it in there for the goats. Also you asked their age they are both 2 1/2 years old.

 

[that's*satyrical]

Ooohh. He mentions the ADM feed. That reminds me someone shared a great link on locations that carry that. I am going to go back & find that.

 

[helmstead]

You need to do more research on Deccox and Rumensin before you make your decision on feeds containing them, and understand that it's not the amount that kills bucks but rather the feed itself (if you're feeding the right feed and hay, you can feed it all day).

Adding ACV isn't doing any good. If it makes you FEEL better, don't worry, it's not doing any HARM either.

Non medicated goat feeds are pretty much ONLY made for milkers. IE does. They will kill bucks, because they won't contain AC.

Lastly, if you were MIXING sweet feed, BOSS, alfalfa pellets, calf manna IN with the Dumor...he maybe ate 1/4 of the AC he was supposed to. Don't rely on minerals, and don't discount the harm grass hay will do to your ratios. Seriously, you need to go read those pages...before you have a dead buck.

And an aside - find a wether companion for the buck, and a doe companion for the doe. You're going to need to separate them eventually.

If you have any questions, feel free to PM me. Good luck.

 

[SDGsoap&dairy]

A heavy worm load isn't necessarily going to affect their poop- scouring is a big red flag, no doubt. But lack of scouring (well formed pellets) does not ever rule out heavy burdens.

And keep in mind, AC in the buck's diet isn't going to completely counteract an upside down Ca ratio. If he were here, I'd stop feeding any grain at all until he's worked up to the appropriate amount of alfalfa pellets- then start working him back onto the grain if he needs it. I'd rather have a goat gain weight gradually on a balanced diet than try to bulk them up quickly with unbalanced ratios.

Your ration shouldn't be evenly mixed when it comes to grain and alfalfa. Here we feed at least a 3:1 ratio (typically it's much higher than that, but that's our minimum). That means at least 3 parts alfalfa to 1 part grain. You're on the right track by fixing your ratios- sounds like you know they are getting way to much grain/not enough alfalfa proportionately. But I agree with Kate that I would drop the grain immediately to balance your ratios. Excluding it will not hurt them- but upping your alfalfa to that level overnight isn't a good idea. If you drop your grain to the appropriate balance level you can then start gradually upping the balanced mix and prevent rumen upset. That much phosphorous fed to an open doe is unhealthy- fed a a buck (or your gestating/lactating does) it can be disastrous!

You're going to be amazed with the results you see on an alfalfa rich diet even without large amounts of grain. Adjust the grain as necessary- but that alfalfa is your foundation, not a supplement.