.

[Kusanar]

I see this one has also been butchered. Someone REALLY doesn't take advice well

 

[misfitmorgan]

I see this one has also been butchered. Someone REALLY doesn't take advice well

Obviously they think they know everything already and just post here so we can be at their beck and call I guess. Say something they dont like and they simply ignore it or become a child and delete all their posts. Don't worry the next time she asks for advice while "not asking for advice" I'm sure she will get little to none. Waste of time.

 

[Ridgetop]

I still don't understand how the calf foundered on milk! According to her he wasn't eating anything except milk.

 

[farmerjan]

Too much milk powder, too strong a protein base.... like too much grain for a horse...which would overload their system with both starches and PROTEIN...... which is usually too high a protein diet.... BUT.... those hooves would not have been like that from the short time she had him.... they were like that when they got the calf and they didn't know enough about calves to see it and recognize it. That is why I was skeptical about the doubling of the lamb milk replacer powder....
We had to be very careful when feeding veal calves. Too much milk could easily scour them, and it was a balancing act to make sure that they did not get bad feet, like founder symptoms.... I always preferred to feed "real milk" as opposed to powdered milk.... you didn't get the feet problems near as much.... because the real stuff is just "so concentrated".... even feeding jersey milk of 5 % butterfat.... you couldn't over concentrate it....

 

[Ridgetop]

We always fed straight goat milk and immediately cut it with water if the calf started to scour or even looked a little off. Cutting the milk with water never did any harm and often kept them from scouring. If gave probiotics and electrolytes I did the paste to make sure it went into the calf. If the calf wouldn't drink, liquid electrolytes did no good! By the time we brought in the calves, the goat kids were weaned and the bucks sold so plenty of milk for the calves.

Fed the milk unpasteurized to the calves in 2 quart calf bottles. Holstein calves or cross breds - 2 quarts am and 2 quarts pm. Fresh water in bucket. Kept them in calf hutches for a month to make sure they didn't scour. At one month old out of the calf hutches and into a corral with stemmy hay and the milk. Never more than 1 gallon per day of milk. Once in the corral they would jump and buck around with each other - so cute!

Only pasteurized the goat milk for the kids to avoid CAE. Blood tested for CAE annually but still heat treated the colostrum and pasteurized the milk for the goat kids. Our family drank it unpasteurized too. Yummy!

 

[Ridgetop]

Even our veal calves on only milk never got bad feet. Lamb powder is much higher protein and fat content.

Poor calf. But I think those breeders saw her coming and that calf was already sickly.

 

[misfitmorgan]

Even our veal calves on only milk never got bad feet. Lamb powder is much higher protein and fat content.

Poor calf. But I think those breeders saw her coming and that calf was already sickly.

I don't know that the breeders did anything per say. According to past posts they have a good reputation which is why those breeders were choose.

I have said since the day it was mentioned that the lamb milk was to rich for cows. I don't think it is true founder either, it is more likely true laminitis.

 

[Kusanar]

I don't think it is true founder either, it is more likely true laminitis.

I'm curious about this statement. In horses, Founder (common term) and Laminitis (medical term) are the same thing and both relate to the inflammation of the lamina in the hoof which causes the heat and pain. If it goes further, those inflamed lamina start to break down causing rotation of the coffin bone (not sure about cows, I know they DO have a similar bone but not sure what it is called in cattle) and the dying tissue releases toxins into the bloodstream. Severe rotation can result in the coffin bone being pressed through the sole of the hoof which is pretty much a death sentence for the animal.

Do those 2 terms mean something different in other stock or are more commonly used for differing levels of severity?

 

[misfitmorgan]

I'm curious about this statement. In horses, Founder (common term) and Laminitis (medical term) are the same thing and both relate to the inflammation of the lamina in the hoof which causes the heat and pain. If it goes further, those inflamed lamina start to break down causing rotation of the coffin bone (not sure about cows, I know they DO have a similar bone but not sure what it is called in cattle) and the dying tissue releases toxins into the bloodstream. Severe rotation can result in the coffin bone being pressed through the sole of the hoof which is pretty much a death sentence for the animal.

Do those 2 terms mean something different in other stock or are more commonly used for differing levels of severity?

They are actually to different things in all livestock including horses, just commonly used as though they are the same. Laminitis is often the sort of first symptom/sign that founder is coming if something doesn't change or treatment isn't gotten, an animal can have laminitis and never have founder as well as never have issues with their hooves again.

Laminitis - Laminitis is an inflammation of the laminar corium of the hoof wall. In general, the term laminitis is used to describe a systemic disease affecting not only the hooves, but also the general condition of the animal. The etiology of the circulatory disturbance is not fully understood and there are some possible explanations often related to nutrition. Due to mechanical stretching of the attachment between the inner and outer laminar structures of the hoof wall, which has been affected by the inflammation (i.e. laminitis), the claw bone can rotate and or sink inside the hoof. Depending on the severity of the laminitis, the mobility of the claw bone inside the capsule and the counter pressure on the sole from hard floors, the sole corium can be contused and secondary lesions of the sole area can develop.

Founder usually refers to a chronic (long-term) condition associated with rotation of the coffin bone, whereas acute laminitis refers to symptoms associated with a sudden initial attack, including pain and inflammation of the laminae. Laminitis can affect one or all feet, but it is most often seen in the front feet concurrently.

Also side note...did you know the term "foundered horse" means the claw bone has come out the bottom of the hoof?

 

[Kusanar]

They are actually to different things in all livestock including horses, just commonly used as though they are the same. Laminitis is often the sort of first symptom/sign that founder is coming if something doesn't change or treatment isn't gotten, an animal can have laminitis and never have founder as well as never have issues with their hooves again.

Laminitis - Laminitis is an inflammation of the laminar corium of the hoof wall. In general, the term laminitis is used to describe a systemic disease affecting not only the hooves, but also the general condition of the animal. The etiology of the circulatory disturbance is not fully understood and there are some possible explanations often related to nutrition. Due to mechanical stretching of the attachment between the inner and outer laminar structures of the hoof wall, which has been affected by the inflammation (i.e. laminitis), the claw bone can rotate and or sink inside the hoof. Depending on the severity of the laminitis, the mobility of the claw bone inside the capsule and the counter pressure on the sole from hard floors, the sole corium can be contused and secondary lesions of the sole area can develop.

Founder usually refers to a chronic (long-term) condition associated with rotation of the coffin bone, whereas acute laminitis refers to symptoms associated with a sudden initial attack, including pain and inflammation of the laminae. Laminitis can affect one or all feet, but it is most often seen in the front feet concurrently.

Also side note...did you know the term "foundered horse" means the claw bone has come out the bottom of the hoof?

Ok, so all foundered horses have laminitis but not all horses that have laminitis will progress to foundering. Got it.