Anemic Herd

[Southern by choice]

CAE and CL both affect the immune system. Not all goats with either of these diseases will respond the same. For some however the diseases can cause ill thrift from the suppressed immune system which opens them up for resistance issues.

Theses are just options for you to look at considering you have at least one that is very special.Sometimes it is a matter of process of elimination.

It also could be as simple as a bad season and will take time to overcome the affects of the worm loads.

Since this hasn't been a long term issue it could be as simple as just needing the time to get through it.
Looking for efficacy in your dewormers is important too. You want to see 95% reduction. EPG counts are important in that regard. If you are not seeing that then another dewormer should be tried.
Sounds like you are working with your vet and that is really a good thing. Hopefully you will find a program that works for you.

As far as the copper... looks like your region is fine. I'd ask your vet about the copper.

 

[goatboy1973]

SBC has very good advice. Our farm is located in an area low in copper for whatever reason maybe the iron binding issue like SBC has. We give copper boluses to our goats every 6 months and it seems to potentiate the dewormer we use plus it has the added effect of giving our goats shiny coats and more energy. You can also give them human iron pills or prenatal vitamins which are a great remedy for anemia. Molasses is a high source of iron so short term use of sweet feed or a molasses based vitamin supplement like Nutridrench for the recommended time at the recommended dosage may be an option. Other food sources high in iron are dark green veggies like greens and broccoli. The tannins are a great dewormer and are as SBC said are in pine bark and they are also found in the needles. Acorns are also a great source of tannins as well as the Lespediza SBC mentioned. We actually have an overgrown pasture newly fenced that is mostly pine saplings, cedar saplings, and thick patches of Lespediza along with poison ivy, wild multiflora rose, and honeysuckle. I would also make sure your goats have access to a good goat specific loose mineral at all times because goats need the correct amount of trace minerals to help their bodies squeeze the absolute most nutrition out of their daily intake of foodstuffs. You might consult with your local University Ag Extension agent and local University animal nutrition specialist. Good luck!

 

[Southern by choice]

@goatboy1973 Sea Kelp is a great source for iron and other minerals. It can be found in the equine section. Because it is plant based it is better utilized than the minerals, although not a replacement for minerals. 1 Bucket last for years. LOL

 

[Socrates-n-Crew]

Thanks for the information.

I am so frustrated, please forgive me if I am sounding short, I dont mean it that way.

The last fecal, 2 weeks ago, showed a significant drop in the coccidia levels, and about a 87% drop in worm load.

However, the same two presented with pretty nasty scours tonight. I am pretty sure the doeling is going to die, but the kiko still looks like wants to fight this, so we'll keep trying.

My next round will be liquid strongid, I guess. I dose them 3 times, 10 days apart and dry lot them for the 30 days.

that is going to be f.u.n.

 

[Southern by choice]

Certainly not taken that way. I think anyone that has goats can understand how frustrating it can be to try and try and do all the "right" things and it still not work.

I must of missed the coccidia before if you mentioned it.
What was the cocci load like?

I hate to say this but if your doeling dies please get her to your state lab or teaching vet hospital and get a necropsy done. I suspect something else is going on and a full necropsy can provide a lot of answers. Most state labs keep prices down, not all though.
Not sure where you are located but NC Rollins lab does necropsies for $10-$40.

Sorry you are facing this struggle. Please keep us updated.
I would add Johnes to list of testing. Johnes is a chronic wasting disease.

You may want to read this...
http://www.johnesdisease.org/

 

[jodief100]

Sounds like your wormers are not working. Rotating wormers around will make it worse. Wormers mixed together will work better than the two alone. I would mix the valbazen and cydecten together and try that. Ideally I would add Prohibit sheep drench at twice the sheep dosage to the mix and give that. All three together. Taking them off feed for 24 hours prior to worming has been proven effective.

Try diMethox for the cocci. It needs to be for 5 days straight, treat everyone, with or without signs.

I would not dry lot after worming. You should move them back to whatever pasture they were on prior to worming. Reason being- worm resistance is a serious problem as you are seeing here. If you worm a goat and them move it someplace clean, then every worm they drop in that clean area is one that has some resistance to the wormer you just used. If you move them back to the "dirty" pasture, the resistance worms they drop will mix with the non-resistant worms already there, delaying wormer resistance.

Heat and wet are a bad combination for worms. My vet says he has seen a HUGE number of worm problems in small ruminants this summer, much worse than he has ever seen. We have not had a serious problem this year. That due to my learning a lot the last few years and loosing a few goats in the process.

It sounds like you are doing things right, keeping pastures tall, rotating, low stocking rate. I hope things work out for you and I am very sorry to hear about your doe and these problems you are having.

The worms should not cause scours. That will be cocci and stress. Something to stop the scours will be Scour-Chek. It is labeled for pigs. 1-2 times a day for 5 days.

 

[goatboy1973]

I use a sulfa based pill for scours. I also use Pepto for severe scours as this usually does the trick for us. Are your goats up to date on their CD&T? The reason I dry lot my goats post deworming for 30 days (only in severe worm infestations) then put them onto a fresh lot is to break the life cycle of the worms. I am a firm believer in rotation of pastures. I had to do the dry lot thing last year for 30 days. I dewormed with Valbazen, waited 2 weeks and then dewormed with Cydectin pour-on, waited 2 more weeks, and then turned them out on a pasture that had never seen a goat and was so thick and overgrown, we didn't see the goats for several days. We didn't need to deworm for nearly a year and this was with rotation of pastures every month and not letting any of the lots get shorter than 5". We still lost a couple of older high % Boer does but the other non-Boer influenced goats thrived. As some of the others have said, you may have a parasite resistance problem. You may need to change to a different class of dewormer. We swear by pasture rotation, dry lotting post deworming, and strict culling of goats that are "problem children" or chronically anemic or have hoof issues or bad mothers, or other common maladies presented. Our goats are expected to be very low input and give very high output. This is what the successful goat operations all have in common. We do not starve or neglect any of our goats (they get vaccinated, have free choice minerals @ all times, a small portable barn resides in all of our paddocks, free choice Timothy/ Orchard grass hay in the winter, dewormed only if FAMACHA indicates a deworming is needed, and free choice fresh spring water at all times. I didn't mention hoof trimming because we hardly have any need for this thanks to hard culling years ago for hoof maladies. My advice is to cull, cull, cull and do not breed any doe that is a problem child because this insures that trait will live on in generations to come. I have a pet doe that is my favorite because she was a bottle baby I raised. She has a tendency for hoof problems and passes these genes on to every one of her offspring. Her offspring, male or female, are slaughter animals every year. Good luck!