Animals to acreage question

[lcertuche]

I just saw something interesting yesterday on YouTube about certain Farmer's Markets. Some will only let you sell a item, eggs, jelly, etc. if no one else is selling those things.

Around here everyone it seems sells their extra eggs. Usually $2 or $2.50/dozen. I think if you live near a large city you may have more trouble with local regulations. When I lived in Russellville, Ar people would get in trouble for selling without a city permit but here in Waldron it doesn't seem to matter.

If this is important to you then it might have to be considered into your plans. Generally here people can sell a few eggs to help defray the cost of upkeep/feed.

 

[Bossroo]

And don't forget the Errors and Omissions Insurance policy in your marketing plans in addition to Homeowners Insurance policy.

 

[Baymule]

Yeah, we have a farm insurance policy in case some uh...... person tries to sue us because they got sick from eating something from our farm.

 

[greybeard]

Like everything in life, developing a plan in regards to 'farming' is important, and that includes a marketing plan 'before' getting into any of it physically or financially, and it doesn't have to mean making a profit from it.
Even if one were to ignore the principal on property loans, just recouping the animal seed stock buy-in and maintenance/medical/feed cost is not easy. If I had to guess, I would put the number of people on this board who are actually doing it 'right' (100% non GMO, no pesticides, no herbicides, no chemicals, no additives, no commercial fertilize, all 'natural', raise all their own veggies, dairy and meat etc etc) at less than 0.001%--and that's being generous in my estimate. The number who are economically viable at it, (using true cost with everything added in--IOW, self sufficient) even lower than that.
#1 reason?
Money and time.
Can it be done? Yep, but you better have plenty of the two things in the above line--and hopefully some youth and good health on your side as well--or a couple of teenage offspring that are working for free.

Mother Nature is a difficult taskmaster, and just about the time you think you have her whipped, she calls her old man in to show you what life is really like--Father Time. Believe me, old age ain't for wimps.

The Amish and other groups are probably better at self sufficiency than anyone and they shop at Walmart/Kroger etc for canned goods and other food staples just like the rest of us.
I'm not saying no one should do it--just know what you are getting in to.

(There's 1/2 dozen people within 5 miles of me (including my sister) trying to get rid of eggs every week too)

If, GMO is a stickler, you can look into wheat and flour by-products for adding to feed. Unless something has changed since 2015, there is no GMO commercially grown wheat in North America, outside some research stations. In fact, most grains are not GMO, with corn being the big exception. But, there are lots of misconceptions about GMO grain.

"More than sixty genetically modified crops have been approved for US food and feed supplies:
Corn (20 varieties)
Oilseed Rape/Canola (11 varieties)
Cotton (11 varieties)
Tomato (6 varieties)
Potato (4 varieties)
Soybean (3 varieties)
Sugar Beet (3 varieties)

Squash (2 varieties)
Cantaloupe
Rice
Flax
Raddicchio
Papaya
Alfalfa
Wheat-developed--not approved.
Of these crops, only corn, soybeans, cotton, canola, squash, and papaya grown in Hawaii, are commercially produced. More than 85 percent of soybeans grown in the United States are transgenic, GM cotton is grown on more than 70 percent of cotton fields, and GM corn is grown on about 50 percent of corn acreage. Many of the other crops have either been taken off the market, such as potato, sugar beet, flax, and tomato, or have never been commercially grown, such as wheat and rice, due to market opposition."

I always laughed at King Authur Flour's big marketing claim about being "GMO FREE!" , when all flour sold in the US and Canada is GMO free.

 

[Bruce]

Other than corn flour/meal??

 

[NH homesteader]

Well... I use zero chemical fertilizers, pesticides or herbicides. I am attempting to raise all of my own vegetables, I do raise all my own meat and will be attempting to get enough milk from my goats to be self sufficient in dairy products. But, for now, I can't afford non GMO grain, particularly for the pigs. I wish I could, but I can't. I do use chemical dewormers when I need to.

I see non GMO labels on all kinds of things that I know aren't GMO crops. It kind of cracks me up but I guess it's helpful for people who don't know exactly what the GMO crops are but don't like the idea of them (and, of course, it's good for the company)

 

[greybeard]

Well... I use zero chemical fertilizers, pesticides or herbicides. I am attempting to raise all of my own vegetables, I do raise all my own meat and will be attempting to get enough milk from my goats to be self sufficient in dairy products. But, for now, I can't afford non GMO grain, particularly for the pigs. I wish I could, but I can't. I do use chemical dewormers when I need to.

I see non GMO labels on all kinds of things that I know aren't GMO crops. It kind of cracks me up but I guess it's helpful for people who don't know exactly what the GMO crops are but don't like the idea of them (and, of course, it's good for the company)

Many decades ago, when I was just a wee tyke--the most popular laundry detergent maker in the country pulled off the biggest advertising coup up to that time, with a very simple claim that they 'borrowed' from the tobacco industry. . "New and Improved!!". It worked and they beat the few competitors they had at the time hand over fist..but the only thing they had actually changed and improved (and only slightly) was the box it came in. They left the formula exactly as it had always been, changing only the color on the box and added an easy open spout, but all the housewives of the late 50s swore it cleaned better than ever before.
This kind of thing is not illegal or false advertising..just somewhat misleading or often just 'stating the obvious" and it even has a name--Puffery.

 

[misfitmorgan]

In Michigan our animal units are as follows:

Beef Cow with calf - 2.5-4.5 acres per pair
Yearling Beef - 1.5-2.5 acres per head
Doe with kids - 1/3-3/4 acre per set
Ewe with lambs - 1/3-4/5 acre per set
Pasture Chickens - 10-12 per acre(this is if you dont want to have to feed them in warm months)
Run/Coop Chickens - 40-50 per acre(you will need to feed them)
Meat Chickens - 50-80 per acre(hatch to butcher then the land is let fallow for 2 years)

For bee's things get a bit complex, like michigan lists 8 hives per acre for honey bees...but then goes on to say hives per acre are dependent on crops like if your raising cherries the maximum density should be 1 hive per acre, if your raising blueberries the maximum density should be 3 hives per acre. This is further confused by the laws that all hives much be located a minimum of 200ft from any property lines, including road setbacks unless the neighboring property is completely vacant land. So many people look at the hives per acre and dont understand it. You can have 8 hives per acre no problem or issue so long as there is enough pollen and nectar available for them to survive or you supplement them, The hives per acre based on crops(1-3hives per acre) is to make sure you have enough pollination and has nothing to do with the number of hives that can actually survive per acre. The latter is in situations where the main crop is something like blueberries and the farmer wants to ensure maximum berry yields, the farmers would make sure he rents/has placed 3 hives per acre of blueberry plants on his property. Here in michigan renting bee hives is very popular for farmers. The rent works based on your crops, if you raise hay or row crops that are not dependent on the bees...aka you dont actually need them...then the hive company will pay the farmers to place hives on their property. Generally payment is made in honey lol such as 1 gallon of honey for letting them place 12 hives on your property. If your crop is dependent on the hives the farmer pays to have hives placed in specific locations around his property. Anyhow i'm getting off track lol....8 hives to an acre is generally seen as the limit here for healthy hive placement.

Also consider that the county itself can have rules on animals per acre. A county not to far away just changed their zoning from 2 acres per horse to 5 acres per horse. The county just south of me has their zoning as follows.

All animals are broken into units, 1 unit being 1,000lbs.
Cow - 1.4 units
horse - 2 units
swine - 0.4 units
sheep/goat - 0.1 units
All Fowl - 0.05 units

Allowable units per acre:
1 acre - 0.5 units
2 acres - 1 unit
3 acres - 2 units
4+ to 19- acres - 2 plus 1 for each acre over 3 (19 acres would be 18units)

So on 19 acres you could have a limit of 9 horses, 12 cows, 45 pigs, 180 goats/sheep, or 360 of any fowl. I'm also not sure how this county figured 9 horse to 19 acres when that other county now figures only 3 horses for anything less then 20 acres. So really check into the county and township zoning. Also none of these "rules" apply if you own 20 acres or more.

Also check what your taxes are, as others have mentioned. Where i live being zoned agricultural is super easy you need a total of 20 acres with more then 50% dedicated to farming practices to qualify for ag but there are no requirements on proving as profit or even proving how much of your land is used to ag. Almost anything counts as ag here livestock pasture, row crops, hay(native grass too), fruit/nuts trees/bushes, gardens, greenhouse, high tunnels, buildings to store equipment/crops, you can even count "roads" put in for purposes of farming as part of the more then 50% of land for ag exemption. We do also have homestead exemption here which costs you more in taxes then Ag but still it is far less then the normal tax. There are no rules on how long a property needs to be used for ag before claiming the exemption. For ag all the assessor cares about is does it look like a farm and can he see livestock or crops. Horses and bees do not count as livestock in my state so check what is and is not considered livestock as well as that could affect if your able to file for Ag or not and how many animals you can have on your farm.

For rotation and pasture space you can do high density pasture rotation to make the most of the acres you have as well. You would have small pastures set up and rotate your animals through based on grazing height. Goats are browsers so have the highest grazing height, then comes cows which are grazers but choose to eat higher up on forage when given a choice, then sheep also grazers but seem to prefer eating plants down shorter, then pigs who are least choosy and will eat things below the ground if needed. Ideally you would take the number of acres to be fenced off then divide those acres by the number of animal groups you will have and then divide that number by 2. For example if you have cows, goats, sheep, and pigs you would have 4 groups and lets say you have 16 acres, 16acres/4groups = 4 this number actually now means 4, 4 acres pastures so then we divide by 2 again which would give us 8, 2 acre pastures. So you put your animals in your 2 acre pastures in their proper order, then they are allowed to eat the pasture for however long it takes the fastest eating group to eat 25% of their pasture which in this case is probly the cow. Rotation systems are awesome because the pasture stays growing, the feces is spread in a small even layer on a schedule, and livestock is moved before parasites become a big problem.

Like everything in life, developing a plan in regards to 'farming' is important, and that includes a marketing plan 'before' getting into any of it physically or financially, and it doesn't have to mean making a profit from it.
Even if one were to ignore the principal on property loans, just recouping the animal seed stock buy-in and maintenance/medical/feed cost is not easy. If I had to guess, I would put the number of people on this board who are actually doing it 'right' (100% non GMO, no pesticides, no herbicides, no chemicals, no additives, no commercial fertilize, all 'natural', raise all their own veggies, dairy and meat etc etc) at less than 0.001%--and that's being generous in my estimate. The number who are economically viable at it, (using true cost with everything added in--IOW, self sufficient) even lower than that.
#1 reason?
Money and time.
Can it be done? Yep, but you better have plenty of the two things in the above line--and hopefully some youth and good health on your side as well--or a couple of teenage offspring that are working for free.

Mother Nature is a difficult taskmaster, and just about the time you think you have her whipped, she calls her old man in to show you what life is really like--Father Time. Believe me, old age ain't for wimps.

The Amish and other groups are probably better at self sufficiency than anyone and they shop at Walmart/Kroger etc for canned goods and other food staples just like the rest of us.
I'm not saying no one should do it--just know what you are getting in to.

(There's 1/2 dozen people within 5 miles of me (including my sister) trying to get rid of eggs every week too)

If, GMO is a stickler, you can look into wheat and flour by-products for adding to feed. Unless something has changed since 2015, there is no GMO commercially grown wheat in North America, outside some research stations. In fact, most grains are not GMO, with corn being the big exception. But, there are lots of misconceptions about GMO grain.

"More than sixty genetically modified crops have been approved for US food and feed supplies:
Corn (20 varieties)
Oilseed Rape/Canola (11 varieties)
Cotton (11 varieties)
Tomato (6 varieties)
Potato (4 varieties)
Soybean (3 varieties)
Sugar Beet (3 varieties)

Squash (2 varieties)
Cantaloupe
Rice
Flax
Raddicchio
Papaya
Alfalfa
Wheat-developed--not approved.
Of these crops, only corn, soybeans, cotton, canola, squash, and papaya grown in Hawaii, are commercially produced. More than 85 percent of soybeans grown in the United States are transgenic, GM cotton is grown on more than 70 percent of cotton fields, and GM corn is grown on about 50 percent of corn acreage. Many of the other crops have either been taken off the market, such as potato, sugar beet, flax, and tomato, or have never been commercially grown, such as wheat and rice, due to market opposition."

I always laughed at King Authur Flour's big marketing claim about being "GMO FREE!" , when all flour sold in the US and Canada is GMO free.

I always like when they put "Gluten Free" on rice products and trying to explain to people that "glutinous rice flour" does not contain gluten has had me in tears with laughter once or twice.

We dont do NON-GMO because its a joke honestly, it is in fact a bigger joke then "Certified Organic" and "Vegetarian fed" meat/eggs or "cage free" eggs for that matter, but anyhoo.....hope some of the info was helpful. You really need to check out stuff for where your looking to live though as michigan stays quite lush for most of the year so your unit/acre is probly different.

 

[Bruce]

This kind of thing is not illegal or false advertising..just somewhat misleading or often just 'stating the obvious" and it even has a name--Puffery.

You mean like:
"No battery lasts longer"
?? Right ....
That does NOT mean their brand lasts longer than the others, it means the batteries "last" the same amount. Doesn't matter if they are from a Bunny, are copper colored, etc. But they hope you to think theirs last longer with that "claim" and will buy theirs whether they cost more or not.

My "favorite" (actually pretty annoying and STUPID) is the Swiss Miss 6 pack pudding my daughter likes. Big claim on the front:
50%
MORE
CUPS*
[picture of 2 cups]
* THAN THE LEADING BRAND'S 6 PACK

OK, how much more stupid and worthless a claim can you make? Yessiree, basic math does in fact prove that 6 is 50% more than 4 and the difference is 2 cups (4 oz each). I wonder what company makes "the leading brand". I bet their package doesn't say
66.7%
FEWER
CUPS*
[picture of 2 cups]
* THAN THE LOSER BRAND'S 4 PACK

 

[NH homesteader]

Hahaha that's a good one! I haven't seen any quite that absurd myself.

I don't think the GMO free label is the same issue though. If companies won't label that a product has GMO's then might as well label products that don't. Considering the weird places you find corn syrup (and the million names it goes by), you practically have to be a chemist to know if GMO corn is in your food.

And if it isn't, it's probably in the packaging.

Anyway, I'm going to stop hijacking now. @misfitmorgan nice to see you back, even if briefly, and great information as usual!