mystang89
True BYH Addict
That looks real nice! I'm jealous of that backhoe attachment!
Bruce's Journal
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greybeard
Herd Master
I predict this will not end well....
Afraid I am too late to save any fish, looks like there is hardly any water in the pond at all. I didn't think there was a big deep part and looks like that is correct.
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Bruce
Herd Master
I'm not planning to put the tractor on the plywood, only the backhoe supports. Tractor stays on dry ground. I'll reach as far as I can with the bucket and pull out the muck, moving it to the side. I'll have to move it again to get it out of the "full pond" level. The muck is like gray-green marshmallow fluff.
Still thinking it will end poorly? And if so, why. I'd rather not lose my new tractor!
Still thinking it will end poorly? And if so, why. I'd rather not lose my new tractor!
greybeard
Herd Master
To use the backhoe, your stabilizers carry most of the weight the rear tires usually do. When you start digging, the force tries to pull the stabilizers backwards. Those feet on the end of the stabilizers are made to be in dirt, not on a smooth surface like plywood sheeting.
one or both of the following will happen.
1. You'll find yourself pulled off the plywood and down will go the stabilizer feet into the mud..
2. The forces the bucket and dipper exert on the tractor will pull the plywood (and your tractor) off into the muck, even with the front bucket tilted down with it's cutting edge in the dirt.
Or 3...
Looking at that picture close, I bet what may look solid ground with the grass on it is only a crust a few inches thick, with muck below it. You're already going to be sitting at an angle due to the slope of the ground leading to the water's edge......all you'll need is a few little pulls with that bucket and you can find yourself in muck. The muck is soft and easy digging, but force is force.
Good luck with it.
one or both of the following will happen.
1. You'll find yourself pulled off the plywood and down will go the stabilizer feet into the mud..
2. The forces the bucket and dipper exert on the tractor will pull the plywood (and your tractor) off into the muck, even with the front bucket tilted down with it's cutting edge in the dirt.
Or 3...
Looking at that picture close, I bet what may look solid ground with the grass on it is only a crust a few inches thick, with muck below it. You're already going to be sitting at an angle due to the slope of the ground leading to the water's edge......all you'll need is a few little pulls with that bucket and you can find yourself in muck. The muck is soft and easy digging, but force is force.
Good luck with it.
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Mike CHS
Herd Master
It's amazing how much force is put on the tractor by the bucket. I have gotten my tractor mired in mud so bad a couple of times that even the 4 wheel drive wasn't enough to get me out. The bucket pulled me right out sort of like I think GB is talking about. I have never tried to do something like that so I'm no help.
greybeard
Herd Master
For that 1538B backhoe it's: (these are ftlbs)
Bucket force: 2900 lbs [1315 kg]
Dipperstick force: 1800 lbs
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Bruce
Herd Master
OK then! I'll test the "dry land" first. Yes, that whole lower part where I would take the tractor is under water when the pond is full, not sure how deep the muck is before hitting bottom of the pond when it was originally made who knows how many decades ago. Given how mucky that stuff is I suspect if I dig deep closer to "shore", the stuff farther out will slowly slide into the low spot and over a few years I can continue to dig the "new deep part" out.
But is "bucket force" MAX it can do, or "is always the case"? Sure wouldn't want to put 2,900 pounds out there. I was figuring on gentle removal, not dig deep and hard.
But is "bucket force" MAX it can do, or "is always the case"? Sure wouldn't want to put 2,900 pounds out there. I was figuring on gentle removal, not dig deep and hard.
greybeard
Herd Master
MAX. It's sometimes referred to as breakout force.
Get a small diameter rod like a piece of rebar, walk down where you think the ground is solid and see how far and how easy the rod goes down. If it starts hard, then gets real easy, there's muck below.
Get a small diameter rod like a piece of rebar, walk down where you think the ground is solid and see how far and how easy the rod goes down. If it starts hard, then gets real easy, there's muck below.
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Bruce
Herd Master
Will do, thanks. The big unknown here is how much muck is on top of the ledge and how far does the ledge go and how fast does it drop off. If you look back at the picture where I said I wouldn't want to take the tractor past a rock, it isn't a loose rock. All the stuff on the left is ledge. I figure that is why the pond was made where it is, at least the SE side is pure sedimentary ledge. That could extend dropping gradually a good distance to the north or it could drop off or just end. My GUESS is that it continues since I hit ledge 2' down when I put the north fence line in, it is ~20' from the inside of the pond.
Next questions:
Next questions:
- The manual says not to use the bucket to side swipe waste back into a trench. I've seen excavators do this all the time. Is that because the entire machine above the tracks is rotating on a heavy pivot rather than the backhoe's arm rotating on a relatively weak pivot on the back of the tractor?
- It also says not to lift things with the bucket which doesn't make sense to me, I would be lifting dirt when I dig and there is a chain hook on the bucket. Does it really mean don't lift heavy things? Like don't try to pull the engine block out of a vehicle?
- AND it says not to pull things with the backhoe. Can't pull something of not great weight toward the tractor?
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greybeard
Herd Master
It has more to do with the swiping action causing the front end to try to swing around or the stress it puts on the stabilizer legs than the pivot strength. It's real easy to unintentionally lower the boom to much, taking weigh off the stabilizer and you'll have the whole backend of the tractor try to move in opposite direction you are trying to swipe dirt. You'll discover tho, that there isn't a lot of power produced from those swing cylinders. They are usually fairly small diameter pistons.
Yep, that's what it means. A generic CYA safety statement...from the manufacturer. They want you to lift stuff only INSIDE the bucket because a chain suspended load can get to swinging side to side and possibly turn you over, or start swinging fore and aft and cause damage to the front of the tractor.
I have 4 different hooks on mine..front and back bucket.
Everyone I know, has picked suspended loads up with either bucket.....of course almost everyone I know that does that, eventually has a little wreck of some sort with it..including me. (new radiators ain't cheap I can tell ya)
