Carla D-Great new adventures and an Amazing Life

[Carla D]

Thank you. I had been doing a little thinking the last few hours. Yes, just because she does things very differently than I would does NOT mean one of us is in the right and the other in the wrong. We simply have two different ways of seeing and doing things. Right? Nor does it mean neglect or abuse. Just different.

The part of castrating him and being liable or breaking a verbal agreement, I didn’t really have any idea. It actually isn’t a verbal agreement. It’s more like a couple of emails exchanged by the two of us about leaving him a buck and letting her breed him. You may have saved me from a great big world of hurt. I don’t know why she gave him to me if he planned on breeding him in the future. I will never know nor is it really any of my business. She is a very small operation. I think she had at max ten goats before she sold most of them and gave me these two. They have three cows, a few chickens, and a cat or two. They may very well rely on the cows and goats for their milk, meat, or as an investment. They do appear to have a limited income. She’s a stay at home mom that does homeschooling to her two children. I don’t have any idea what her husband does for a living. For all I know they could be relying on a disability check like I do. If that’s the case, my castrating the buck would be putting them in a world of hurt or hardship. That is the last thing I want to do. I understand struggles all to well. I don’t want to be the root to another family’s struggles. So thank you for pointing that fact out to me. I don’t want to cause anyone hardship. I’m going to think about this for a little bit. I may end up asking her to take the buck back or let me castrate him. I’m not sure. I do know I don’t really want an intact buck. While I don’t know much about goats I don’t want to have buck dominating all of the wethers. I’ve always felt that fixed animals made for much better pets unless you have plans to breed them yourself. Which I don’t. You have given me a lot to think about. But, I’d rather have a lot of thinking to do than having to pay a whole mess of money over a broken agreement/contract. For that I’m really thankful you said something to me. I am generally a thinker. Sometimes words come out of my mouth before I have really thought things through. That may be why I have stomach issues, I’ve stressed myself to ulcer/stomach troubles. On occasion I have been known to jump too quickly and then really regret it and have to pay the consequences.

 

[Carla D]

Thank you. I believe you and latestarter are correct on this issue. I’m either going to suck it up with the medical expenses and feeding, loving, and caring for them. Or the only other alternative is to give one or both back to her. I think she and I are going to need to work that out. We shouldn’t have done this exchange without having something I writing first.

 

[Latestarter]

From what you've now shared, it seems the "agreement/contract" is actually in written form via Emails. Even more dangerous situation as now it goes beyond "he said/she said"... it's documented in print and was sent electronically so there's a digital "carbon copy" as well... Nuff said.

 

[Senile_Texas_Aggie]

Miss @Carla D,

You seem like a very thoughtful and caring person. And you are willing to listen to the opinions of others. That is so refreshing to encounter. I hope things work out between you and your neighbor.

 

[Carla D]

From what you've now shared, it seems the "agreement/contract" is actually in written form via Emails. Even more dangerous situation as now it goes beyond "he said/she said"... it's documented in print and was sent electronically so there's a digital "carbon copy" as well... Nuff said.

Yes. That’s true. I just got done sending their previous owner an email politely stating what I wanted to do for the goats. Immunizations, deworm, vet exam, and castrate the buck. I asked her if she would rather have them back, could we come up with an agreement we can both live with and is good for the goats. But that I’d really like to work the details out that we should have worked out before the exchange yesterday. I’m just waiting to see what she wants to do and what and what her plans for breeding the buck was. I’m not very bright at times. I jump before I look sometimes, and sometimes I just don’t have a clue. I need to examine myself some and figure out why that is,

 

[Carla D]

Ca
carla.... RUN, seriously Run away from the two new goats ....it will bring you nonthing but trouble, caring for them, vet costs, emotional worry...its not worth it. As time goes by and your little guys grow up to be big boys you will be more experienced with goats, your plans may change, you may decide its too costly to have "only" wethed goats....you are in the time frame right now to get your sneakers on and run like hell, the longer you wait to decide...the harder it will be....but like i said before...the best part about getting advice is you can take it or leave it..... please don't let emotions over ride your decision, it will end up costing you more than you can imagine....

I agree with you that how’s the time to run. But instead of doing something very hasty I told the previous owner we need to discuss things pertains the two goats. Which IS something we should have done before I jumped into taking them. You are definitely right about something needs to be done. There may be a very good and legit reason why she would give her two goats away to a complete stranger. Things should be worked out within the next day or two. If she’s not willing to talk with me and setup a mutual agreement she may very well find them back in her barn. There’s a reason she gave them to a complete stranger. And there are reasons behind my wanting to have the vet come out, to vaccinate, and castrate them. But I will not be waiting very long to discuss this with her.

 

[Carla D]

I agree with @Latestarter. The emails are a written agreement to the terms of her giving you the goats. I would print, save, copy those emails and keep them safe somewhere.
You might stop by there and speak to her directly and tell her your concerns and see if you can reach an agreement. Or if you would rather, email her so you have a paper trail, so to speak, so you have written proof of what is agreed upon if you can convince her to allow the castration.
Then again, I would pobably just take them back. It might be easier in the long run and keep you out of alot of heartache later.

Yes. Either a mutual agreement is reached and documented or they go back to her before I invest more than a round of dewormer for them. I’m hoping it happens tonight, but I’ll give her a day maybe two to think about what she would like to do. I have no intentions of forcing her to allow me to castrate and vaccinate the goat. But, I also don’t plan on investing a lot of time and money on them either if she wants them back.

 

[Latestarter]

Jeeze... I'm really starting to feel like a real Jack wad here... Another issue to think on...

I would recommend against worming them without first doing a fecal exam to determine worm load and type worm you're trying to eliminate... if any. If indeed there is a worm issue, and it's a blood sucking worm, causing anemia, killing off an extreme load of worms too quickly can cause bleed out as the worms die and release... I addition, the worm kill will cause the new baby worms to hatch (the dewormer only kills the adults and I believe larval stage, not the eggs) to take the place of those that were eliminated, so the worming will need to be repeated again 10 days from the first application. A fecal should be run after the worming to ensure the first attempt achieved proper efficacy (Ideal is 95% or greater)...

 

[Carla D]

I am getting a whole lot of great feedback from all of you. You have no idea how much I appreciate the fact you care enough to point some of the obvious things we didn’t do right or missed entirely. I have just send her a very polite and well thought out email to the gal about five minutes ago. I explained what I want to do and why. I’ve offered her a chance to do the same. But, I told her ultimately we need to come up with a written/documented agreement concerning the two new goats or she will be finding them back in her barn. I don’t wish to make her feel bad or guilty about why she gave them to a complete stranger. Nor do I have any intention of keeping any goats that I don’t have complete control to what I feel is in the best interest of the goats.

I also wanted to give a quick follow up about the transition and getting acquainted for the goats. Last night I went and made the opening to their house much smaller. Too small for the big ones to get in and push the little ones out from the heat. When I got there this morning I couldn’t find the two big goats. After a brief moment I had seen almost all of my babies AND two big goats coming out of theI’m house. I guess I didn’t make the opening small enough. My husband and I tried moving the boards so there was only about 6 inches to squeeze through for the babies. We both stood there in complete awe as the biggest of the two squeezed his way into the six inch opening. So as long as they are getting along we decided the babies don’t need a place to seek refuge. The two goats were in the stall long enough to poop in there. So I’m worming all of them. Because it only takes one worm to infect them all. I know I should have kept them separated but I wasn’t thinking about that at the time. Had I been thinking I would have asked her to keep them a few more days so we could build them their own place away from the babies. But, I do a lot of stupid things because I don’t think things through before I take action. And I also let my heart run the show instead of my brain. I’m sure you’ve all noticed by now that I don’t think things through nearly enough. One of these times you’d think I would learn from this mistake or flaw of mine.

 

[Carla D]

Jeeze... I'm really starting to feel like a real Jack wad here... Another issue to think on...

I would recommend against worming them without first doing a fecal exam to determine worm load and type worm you're trying to eliminate... if any. If indeed there is a worm issue, and it's a blood sucking worm, causing anemia, killing off an extreme load of worms too quickly can cause bleed out as the worms die and release... I addition, the worm kill will cause the new baby worms to hatch (the dewormer only kills the adults and I believe larval stage, not the eggs) to take the place of those that were eliminated, so the worming will need to be repeated again 10 days from the first application. A fecal should be run after the worming to ensure the first attempt achieved proper efficacy (Ideal is 95% or greater)...

Since I don’t have a microscope at the moment I’m going to collect a few stool samples and take them to the vet in the morning. The dewormer I have is Ivomec, that’s what we have at the farm. I know that dewormer doesn’t kill all types of worms. If I have the vet check the samples I’ll know i have the right dewormer for the job.

Latestarter, please stop being hesitant or cautious about giving me things to think about. I’m so new and nieve about goats I don’t have a clue about what questions I should ask, what to look for, or things to think about. When I was growing up asking questions was not tolerated. Maybe that’s why I don’t enough or the right type of questions to ask. You have been pointing out issues, giving me reason or rational if it’s needed, and you let me work through the problem on my own without steering me one way or the other. I can really appreciate things being pointed out, some problems/consequences , a couple of whys and you let me the dumb decisions or at some rationals to think about before something unreveseable happens.