Diet of a Nigerian Dwarf Goat?

[helmstead]

Sunny & the 5 egg layers- See here for the Purina page on their Noble Goat feed. I think this might make it easier for you to form a conclusion on if it is indeed what you want to feed or not.

I've mentioned before on this forum...you have to check your REGIONAL Purina mill for ammonium chloride content - it is NOT available in all regions. And read every tag on every bag, as they're known for switching coccistats on you between batches. All-in-all thought Noble Goat is a good feed, and if you can't get it with AC already in there, you can just topdress with bulk AC to compensate.

 

[SDGsoap&dairy]

Sunny & the 5 egg layers- See here for the Purina page on their Noble Goat feed. I think this might make it easier for you to form a conclusion on if it is indeed what you want to feed or not.

A total newb can read feed labels until they're blue in the face, but until they learn about ruminant nutrition looking at ingredient panels and guaranteed analyses is completely useless. That's why it's useful for folks to ask about feed here- to get the reasoning behind it from folks with experience.

 

[Livinwright Farm]

The quote reads that molasses' potassium interferes with calcium absorption, thus upsetting cah ratios AND can ALSO be a concern because it increases the risk of UC. Where is the "and/also" coming from? It IS upside down cah ratios that cause UC.

I've never read about potassium rich molasses contributing to UC and I'd be interested in further reading. I have read that the high iron content in molasses can interfere with copper levels, so I'm not defending molasses here. But I think it's important for the OP not to read this as "sweet feed is an issue, molasses-free grain rations are not." Upside down cah due to too much phosphorous rich feed (any type of grain) and not enough calcium rich feeds (legume hays such as alfalfa and peanut, beet pulp) cause UC.

I am not sure what you mean by "and/also"... as I did not use this term...?

 

[SDGsoap&dairy]

ETA: this quote from a page that shared with me by another member here(can't recall which one) in a previous thread. "Molasses is a rich source of potassium which, if fed in excess, could reduce the absorption of calcium, thus upsetting the calcium to phosphorus ratio." {This could be managed by adding a vitamin D supplement to their feeding ration, but why pay more just to bring the nutrients back to a proper level, when it can be avoided by simply limiting their access to molasses and/or bananas?}

Also, molasses is of concern when related to wethers or bucks due to an increase in the risk of the male developing Urinary Calculi. {Which I suppose one could up the amount of a.c. in their diet, but again, why pay more?}

To me this infers "in addition to." Maybe I'm just not understanding the wording.

 

[Livinwright Farm]

Goatmasta: Thank you for posting the link for the page I quoted from.

 

[Livinwright Farm]

I always use the word "also" as a continuation of my thoughts... sorry if this is confusing to anyone. But now you know.

 

[Goatmasta]

Goatmasta: Thank you for posting the link for the page I quoted from.

I am confused then, because the page doesn't back up your ideals. It says "although this may be a concern if feeding pure molasses to your goats". It does not state that molasses in normal amounts is bad. What is says is that people have a unfounded fear of molasses, that the culprit for UC is cereal grains, not enough forage and lack of hydration. It is cereal grains because that they lack the calcium, which in turn cause the ratio to be upside down.

 

[SDGsoap&dairy]

I've never read that grains with molasses added are higher in phosphorous than grains without. Can you share some references?

It is the amount of potassium in molasses that throws off the calcium/phosphorus ratio... not the amount of phosphorous. Same reason why one should be careful when offering bananas to goats. It is okay every now and then, on a treat basis, but not something you want to give them every day.

ETA: this quote from a page that shared with me by another member here(can't recall which one) in a previous thread. "Molasses is a rich source of potassium which, if fed in excess, could reduce the absorption of calcium, thus upsetting the calcium to phosphorus ratio." {This could be managed by adding a vitamin D supplement to their feeding ration, but why pay more just to bring the nutrients back to a proper level, when it can be avoided by simply limiting their access to molasses and/or bananas?}

Also, molasses is of concern when related to wethers or bucks due to an increase in the risk of the male developing Urinary Calculi. {Which I suppose one could up the amount of a.c. in their diet, but again, why pay more?}

I find this interesting. I have never heard of molasses being the culprit, but cereal grains do to the fact that they are very low in calcium. So, I did a little googling to see what I could find on the molasses....

http://www.fancyfeedcompany.co.uk/library:18.htm

Many goat owners also show concern in feeding diets that contain molasses to wethers or bucks in particular, due to fear that this will increase their chance of developing calculi. Molasses is a rich source of potassium which, if fed in excess, could reduce the absorption of calcium, thus upsetting the calcium to phosphorus ratio. However, although this may be a concern if feeding pure molasses to your goats, when molasses is combined within a concentrated ration the minerals are balanced so the complete feed is only supplying the nutrients your goat needs. In any case, the molasses is only added as a coating and will not make up a large proportion of the end ration so is unlikely to be the cause of calculi formation. Goats can be particular in what they like to eat, which is why goat mixes tend to be available as dry or lightly molassed to improve palatability.

Thanks for putting the quote into context Goatmasta. It does change the take home message when read in context. Maybe there are some other references about the potassium levels in molasses being an issue, Livin? I think this is really important to look into further, not because we feed sweet feed but because giving molasses in water as a quick energy source immediately after kidding is a common practice which we follow- a time when calcium interference is a critical issue. The last thing you want following kidding is something inhibiting calcium absorption...

 

[Livinwright Farm]

Goatmasta: the site also mentions that the higher potassium CAN throw off the cah balance. As potassium blocks the ability to absorb calcium. We all have our own beliefs & reasons as to why we feed a certain way, and give our own advice. I simply gave mine, which was requested by Sunny & the 5 egg layers, with the scientific reason as to why I would not give anything with molasses to male goats(but especially wethers), except on a treat basis. We allow limited acess to Lucerne Farms Alfa Supreme(molasses misted & shredded alfalfa hay) for our bucks... same goes for banana, only that is especially limited.

 

[SDGsoap&dairy]

Goatmasta: the site also mentions that the higher potassium CAN throw off the cah balance. As potassium blocks the ability to absorb calcium. We all have our own beliefs & reasons as to why we feed a certain way, and give our own advice. I simply gave mine, which was requested by Sunny & the 5 egg layers, with the scientific reason as to why I would not give anything with molasses to male goats(but especially wethers), except on a treat basis. We allow limited acess to Lucerne Farms Alfa Supreme(molasses misted & shredded alfalfa hay) for our bucks... same goes for banana, only that is especially limited.

Sorry- I think Goatmasta's response was to my request for references. I've never heard that about molasses and so was interested in reading more. I wasn't so much questioning your belief as I was curious about facts behind it. I think it's important to put into perspective whether the amount of banana required for calcium interference would have your goat scouring like a fire hose or if even the quantity that might be given as a treat can affect ratios. I don't know the answer to that... The same goes for the alfalfa hay that is misted. If the amount of molasses used is enough to affect cah ratios then it would be advisable not to feed it at all. Particularly since the main purpose of alfalfa is to offset the phosphorous in the rest of the diet. How much potassium is an issue and how much potassium is actually in molasses?