Diet of a Nigerian Dwarf Goat?

[Livinwright Farm]

No worries N.Smithurmond(Nick, Nicki, Nikki?) I don't mind when people have questions that they are seeking clarification on... especially when it comes to something I have said. I would much rather have the opportunity to clarify my intent or meaning than to have someone assume I was meaning something completely opposite than my meaning/intent
... it is never fun for anyone involved, when meanings or intent are misconstrued/misinterpreted. Written word is so difficult sometimes, as one can not hear the intended inflections.

I think this is an area that really needs a proper scientific study done, to see what actual difference potassium makes in a goats diet. Until it is verified one way or the other, I would rather air on the side of caution and limit it or remove it all together. As I stated previously, why pay to supplement and bring the diet back into balance, if you can just eliminate the potential for the need to correct in the first place... right?

ETA: or am I just too frugal?!?

 

[SDGsoap&dairy]

I think this is an area that really needs a proper scientific study done, to see what actual difference potassium makes in a goats diet. Until it is verified one way or the other, I would rather air on the side of caution and limit it or remove it all together. As I stated previously, why pay to supplement and bring the diet back into balance, if you can just eliminate the potential for the need to correct in the first place... right?

I know you've only had a couple kiddings so you're probably still working our the details of your routine, but have you in the couple kiddings you've had or do you plan in the future to give molasses post-kidding?

Arguing that you're eliminating the cost of extra calcium supplementation by not feeding molasses is a red herring because assumes that the amount of potassium in a serving of molasses affects cah ratios. I'd be the first to admit that just because it's a commonly accepted practice doesn't mean it's necessarily scientifically correct, but without more than a vague googled reference or two (quoted out of context) and no hard data (or ample anecdotal evidence from long-term producers) I don't think I'd feel comfortable advising others patently that molasses contributes to UC. It's not always the case that a=b=c. UC is a very serious concern for goat owners and misinformation (or misguided information) risks befuddling the basic crux of the issue for what's already an enormous and sometimes overwhelming amount of information.

There's nothing wrong with sharing your personal beliefs, suspicions, inklings, or gut feelings... for experienced owners/producers those suspicions are often obtained though valuable first hand experience that sometimes even vets don't have. But I think when advising a fellow goat owner who's attempting to sort through the mountains of information available it's wise to frame the advice in the proper context, as a belief as-of-yet unverified by research.

 

[Livinwright Farm]

I think this is an area that really needs a proper scientific study done, to see what actual difference potassium makes in a goats diet. Until it is verified one way or the other, I would rather air on the side of caution and limit it or remove it all together. As I stated previously, why pay to supplement and bring the diet back into balance, if you can just eliminate the potential for the need to correct in the first place... right?

I know you've only had a couple kiddings so you're probably still working our the details of your routine, but have you in the couple kiddings you've had or do you plan in the future to give molasses post-kidding?

Arguing that you're eliminating the cost of extra calcium supplementation by not feeding molasses is a red herring because assumes that the amount of potassium in a serving of molasses affects cah ratios. I'd be the first to admit that just because it's a commonly accepted practice doesn't mean it's necessarily scientifically correct, but without more than a vague googled reference or two (quoted out of context) and no hard data (or ample anecdotal evidence from long-term producers) I don't think I'd feel comfortable advising others patently that molasses contributes to UC. It's not always the case that a=b=c. UC is a very serious concern for goat owners and misinformation (or misguided information) risks befuddling the basic crux of the issue for what's already an enormous and sometimes overwhelming amount of information.

There's nothing wrong with sharing your personal beliefs, suspicions, inklings, or gut feelings... for experienced owners/producers those suspicions are often obtained though valuable first hand experience that sometimes even vets don't have. But I think when advising a fellow goat owner who's attempting to sort through the mountains of information available it's wise to frame the advice in the proper context, as a belief as-of-yet unverified by research.

I was not taking about calcium supplementation, but rather what would be needed to correct the imbalance that could(as the page that both Goatmasta & I quoted from states that it can) arise from giving molasses: Vitamin D and Ammonium Chloride.

I am not sure why you asked about the giving of molasses to my does, since I had referenced the limiting or removal of molasses when talking about wethers and bucks, as they in particular are more prone to UC.
But, to answer your question We only gave molasses to a doe once, but that doe ended up dying(Cali) due to a very young frame, stress of having the kid in her for roughly 8 hrs & the stress of the kid retreival process.
If we had been able to find CMPK in any form prior to her going into labor, we would not have given her the molasses water. We now have one of the CMPK gel tubes that is meant for dosing a cow... but it will be cut open when Momma has kidded and the rest will get stored appropriately... at least until we purchase a bottle of injectable CMPK from the vet(now that we have FINALLY found a vet willing to work with farm animals).

 

[elevan]

Personally...I've very confused about this potassium causing a lack of absorption of the calcium theory.
Here is why: There isn't a lot of research on goats but there is a TON of research on humans. And MY calcium supplement is fortified with potassium, phosphorus and magnesium. Why would they include the potassium if it interferes with the calcium's absorption rate??? That just doesn't make any sense to me.
Now, I know that humans and goats to each other do not equate BUT mineral absorption varies little from species to species AND we are talking about the potential for potassium to inhibit calcium.
I just do NOT think that this is correct. This is my personal opinion.



AND - CMPK is CALCIUM, MAGNESIUM, PHOSPHORUS, POTASSIUM (K)...why would they put those in combination with each other (for livestock) IF potassium inhibits calcium???? It makes no sense I tell you! I do NOT believe that potassium inhibits calcium.

 

[helmstead]

I have to say I agree with Elevan, barring some sort of GROSS overdose, which a little molasses or the occasional banana won't give you. I think Livin has misunderstood the 'jist' of the link, which is what Goatmasta was trying to point out - a MISCONCEPTION about molasses-coated feeds.

 

[Livinwright Farm]

Personally...I've very confused about this potassium causing a lack of absorption of the calcium theory.
Here is why: There isn't a lot of research on goats but there is a TON of research on humans. And MY calcium supplement is fortified with potassium, phosphorus and magnesium. Why would they include the potassium if it interferes with the calcium's absorption rate??? That just doesn't make any sense to me.
Now, I know that humans and goats to each other do not equate BUT mineral absorption varies little from species to species AND we are talking about the potential for potassium to inhibit calcium.
I just do NOT think that this is correct. This is my personal opinion.

This is why I had stated previously: I think this is an area that really needs a proper scientific study done, to see what actual difference potassium makes in a goats diet.
When something like this is an unknown, we(I and my family) would prefer to air on the side of caution and limit or remove the item in question.... it's the whole better safe than sorry thing, for us.

In regards to humans and the vitamin supplements: It is a common practice in the industry to throw in as much as they can, so people will look at the label and go,"Hey, this has a ton of good stuff in it, it has to be good/beneficial to me!" When in reality, several of the ingredients work against each other or cancel each other out. They make more money out of us this way, as we all know. In humans, an overload of calcium leads to kidney stone issues. One way to prevent kidney stones in people that eat a calcium & vitamin D rich diet is to eat a banana a day... as it is known they are rich in potassium, which does(scientifically proven) slow the absorbtion rate of calcium.


Not being said to any one person, but anyone reading this thread(that has gone a ways off it's original topic, by addressing things I wrote instead of questions made by the OP):
All of what I have posted, is what I(and my farm) practice... just like any other advice from other members here. The off topic comments are also not as of yet proven for GOATS... in defense of either practice. This was a good discussion though. I am starting a new thread for anyone to post about their supplementation practices. Something akin to Elevan's feeding practices thread.

 

[elevan]

Livinwright - I responded on the new thread that you created so as not to further hijack this thread.

My response can be found here: Let's look at our different supplementation practices

 

[SDGsoap&dairy]

Moved to supplementation thread.

 

[SDGsoap&dairy]

I have to say I agree with Elevan, barring some sort of GROSS overdose, which a little molasses or the occasional banana won't give you. I think Livin has misunderstood the 'jist' of the link, which is what Goatmasta was trying to point out - a MISCONCEPTION about molasses-coated feeds.

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